Saturday, October 24, 2009
President Chavez and Prime Minister Skerrit: The relationship that keeps giving?
By Jason Richards
On April 17, 2009 I was glued to my television viewing coverage of the historic visit of President Barack Obama with the Caribbean leaders in Port of Spain Trinidad. Suddenly, there was a commotion in the room as President Hugo Chavez of Venezuela moved across to engage President Barack in brief conversation.
Something else caught my attention. It was that of my own Prime Minister Roosevelt Skerrit hovering just feet away from the Venezuelan leader.
Somehow, I was not surprised. In fact I think I noticed it because I was actually looking out for the Prime Minister standing next to President Chavez. Like a keen political observer, I have noted with interest the growing friendship and camaraderie between the two leaders.
It all started just a few months after Skerrit became prime minister of Dominica on the sudden death of Pierre Charles in 2004. Introduced to the Venezuelan leader by longtime friend of Dominica Fidel Castro, the two leaders hit it off almost immediately.
The confident revolutionary must have seen in a Skerrit a young (31 year old at the time) untested leader who could in some way become his protégé. Chavez then set about cultivating the relationship. Within just a few months of the introduction by the erstwhile Cuban leader, prime minister Skerrit was on his way to Venezuela, the first in many visits.
As for Chavez, he has visited Dominica on two separate occasions. First in February 2007 and more recently in March 2009. In 2007, several Venezuelan soldiers were deployed to Dominica, conceivably to help upgrade the country’s airport.
The move led to accusations that Chavez was building a military base on the island, reports that were vehemently denied by both sides. The soldiers were eventually withdrawn after working for a few months on the airport.
Underpinning the close personal friendship of the two leaders has been the release by the Chavez office of photos showing the two leaders together. Also, in most official portraits of the Bolivarian Alliance for the Americas (ALBA) summits, Skerrit can be seen right next to the Venezuelan leader.
The personal relationship appears to have been hugely beneficial to the Dominican leader with energy minister Reginald Austrie once having boasted that “Skerrit is the only leader that I know who can walk out of the Venezuelan president’s office with a check in his hand.”
And the checks have been coming. Chavez pledged over EC $29.4 million to a “housing revolution’ in Dominica, with funds used to build homes in the Carib Territory and elsewhere.
Privately chartered Venezuelan aircraft have ferried Dominican eye patients to Cuba to receive top quality treatment paid for by Venezuela.
In the wake of Hurricane Dean in 2007, Venezuela was the first to send emergency aid. Another Venezuelan initiative the Petro Caribe Agreement has saved Dominica millions as the country along with other Caribbean islands have received oil at discounted prices and allowed to repay over twenty-five years (See related).
Not all of Chavez’s offers to Dominica has been helpful. On the day of his visit to Dominica in 2007, he announced that his country would build an $80 million oil refinery on the island.
His announcement was met with immediate protests as many on the island criticized the building of an oil refinery in a country that prides itself as the Nature Isle of the World.
Months after the announcement, the Dominican leader apparently bowed to the pressure and quietly decided against building the oil refinery. In his 2009 visit, Chavez promised to build a coffee plant in Dominica, an initiative that is yet to materialize.
In a scathing attack on the Venezuelan leadership, a United States State Department 2008 report on drug dealing in Venezuela cited the involvement of top Venezuelan officials in the drug trade. The same report implicated Dominica for allowing drugs from that country to pass through its territory (Related story).
Skerrit has tried his best to repay the attention and generous benefits of the Venezuelan leader. In 2008, just days before a referendum on his rule, Skerrit appeared at a public meeting with the Venezuelan leader in his country and told the Venezuelan people: "I want to say to you, my friends in Venezuela, that we will be back to celebrate the 20th, the 30th, the 40th and the 50th anniversary of President Chavez in office."
On January 10, 2008 Chavez proudly announced to the world that Dominica would become the first Caribbean country to join the ‘ALBA Revolution’. Since that time, St Vincent and Antigua have become members.
Many in the Western news media have started to categorize the ALBA leadership as revolutionaries of a past era and prefer to refer to ALBA as a leftist alliance. From Daniel Ortega of Nicaragua, to the Castros’ of Cuba and Evo Morales of Bolivia, it is a grouping that will undoubtedly be closely watched by the West.
Political observers in Dominica however see a more sinister reason for Venezuela’s cozy relationship with Skerrit - Bird Island. A small island located well within the territorial boundary of Dominica, some 90 miles off Dominica’s north western coast and 350 miles north of the Venezuelan coast, Bird Island have been claimed by Venezuela who are using it as a naval base.
Just when Dominica’ s claim to the island was growing more loudly with support from the Caribbean Community (CARICOM) to help it pursue the issue, Chavez’s largesse towards the country began. Now, few in Dominica expect their leader to contest Venezuela’s claim.
As I looked at the power play on that day in April between president Barack Obama, the most powerful man in the world on one side, and prime minister Skerrit and his mentor president Chavez on the other it started me thinking.
What has been the true costs and benefits of the friendship between the two leaders. The fact that we have ostensibly given up our claim to an island within our boundaries is troubling.
Is that too high a price to pay? Some may argue that the level of resources been put into Dominica by Chavez more than makes up for forgoing our interest in Bird Island. I am not convinced.
For one thing I don’t believe that the relationship extends necessarily to the country so that when either Chavez or Skerrit exits the political arena, it is very unlikely that the seeming benefits to Dominica will be extended.
On April 17, 2009 I was glued to my television viewing coverage of the historic visit of President Barack Obama with the Caribbean leaders in Port of Spain Trinidad. Suddenly, there was a commotion in the room as President Hugo Chavez of Venezuela moved across to engage President Barack in brief conversation.
 President Barack Obama talks to President Hugo Chavez as Prime MInister Skerrit and other leaders look on. |
Something else caught my attention. It was that of my own Prime Minister Roosevelt Skerrit hovering just feet away from the Venezuelan leader.
Somehow, I was not surprised. In fact I think I noticed it because I was actually looking out for the Prime Minister standing next to President Chavez. Like a keen political observer, I have noted with interest the growing friendship and camaraderie between the two leaders.
It all started just a few months after Skerrit became prime minister of Dominica on the sudden death of Pierre Charles in 2004. Introduced to the Venezuelan leader by longtime friend of Dominica Fidel Castro, the two leaders hit it off almost immediately.
The confident revolutionary must have seen in a Skerrit a young (31 year old at the time) untested leader who could in some way become his protégé. Chavez then set about cultivating the relationship. Within just a few months of the introduction by the erstwhile Cuban leader, prime minister Skerrit was on his way to Venezuela, the first in many visits.
As for Chavez, he has visited Dominica on two separate occasions. First in February 2007 and more recently in March 2009. In 2007, several Venezuelan soldiers were deployed to Dominica, conceivably to help upgrade the country’s airport.
The move led to accusations that Chavez was building a military base on the island, reports that were vehemently denied by both sides. The soldiers were eventually withdrawn after working for a few months on the airport.
Underpinning the close personal friendship of the two leaders has been the release by the Chavez office of photos showing the two leaders together. Also, in most official portraits of the Bolivarian Alliance for the Americas (ALBA) summits, Skerrit can be seen right next to the Venezuelan leader.
The personal relationship appears to have been hugely beneficial to the Dominican leader with energy minister Reginald Austrie once having boasted that “Skerrit is the only leader that I know who can walk out of the Venezuelan president’s office with a check in his hand.”
And the checks have been coming. Chavez pledged over EC $29.4 million to a “housing revolution’ in Dominica, with funds used to build homes in the Carib Territory and elsewhere.
Privately chartered Venezuelan aircraft have ferried Dominican eye patients to Cuba to receive top quality treatment paid for by Venezuela.
In the wake of Hurricane Dean in 2007, Venezuela was the first to send emergency aid. Another Venezuelan initiative the Petro Caribe Agreement has saved Dominica millions as the country along with other Caribbean islands have received oil at discounted prices and allowed to repay over twenty-five years (See related).
 The Office of the Venezuelan president have released photos of President Chavez together with Dominica's prime minister Roossevelt Skerrit. |
Not all of Chavez’s offers to Dominica has been helpful. On the day of his visit to Dominica in 2007, he announced that his country would build an $80 million oil refinery on the island.
His announcement was met with immediate protests as many on the island criticized the building of an oil refinery in a country that prides itself as the Nature Isle of the World.
Months after the announcement, the Dominican leader apparently bowed to the pressure and quietly decided against building the oil refinery. In his 2009 visit, Chavez promised to build a coffee plant in Dominica, an initiative that is yet to materialize.
In a scathing attack on the Venezuelan leadership, a United States State Department 2008 report on drug dealing in Venezuela cited the involvement of top Venezuelan officials in the drug trade. The same report implicated Dominica for allowing drugs from that country to pass through its territory (Related story).
Skerrit has tried his best to repay the attention and generous benefits of the Venezuelan leader. In 2008, just days before a referendum on his rule, Skerrit appeared at a public meeting with the Venezuelan leader in his country and told the Venezuelan people: "I want to say to you, my friends in Venezuela, that we will be back to celebrate the 20th, the 30th, the 40th and the 50th anniversary of President Chavez in office."
On January 10, 2008 Chavez proudly announced to the world that Dominica would become the first Caribbean country to join the ‘ALBA Revolution’. Since that time, St Vincent and Antigua have become members.
Many in the Western news media have started to categorize the ALBA leadership as revolutionaries of a past era and prefer to refer to ALBA as a leftist alliance. From Daniel Ortega of Nicaragua, to the Castros’ of Cuba and Evo Morales of Bolivia, it is a grouping that will undoubtedly be closely watched by the West.
Political observers in Dominica however see a more sinister reason for Venezuela’s cozy relationship with Skerrit - Bird Island. A small island located well within the territorial boundary of Dominica, some 90 miles off Dominica’s north western coast and 350 miles north of the Venezuelan coast, Bird Island have been claimed by Venezuela who are using it as a naval base.
Just when Dominica’ s claim to the island was growing more loudly with support from the Caribbean Community (CARICOM) to help it pursue the issue, Chavez’s largesse towards the country began. Now, few in Dominica expect their leader to contest Venezuela’s claim.
As I looked at the power play on that day in April between president Barack Obama, the most powerful man in the world on one side, and prime minister Skerrit and his mentor president Chavez on the other it started me thinking.
What has been the true costs and benefits of the friendship between the two leaders. The fact that we have ostensibly given up our claim to an island within our boundaries is troubling.
Is that too high a price to pay? Some may argue that the level of resources been put into Dominica by Chavez more than makes up for forgoing our interest in Bird Island. I am not convinced.
For one thing I don’t believe that the relationship extends necessarily to the country so that when either Chavez or Skerrit exits the political arena, it is very unlikely that the seeming benefits to Dominica will be extended.
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// posted by TheDominican.net @ 1:45 PM
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The peas in the pud!!! LOL! whatever is going on between these two in MY OPINION cannot be good.. There are many lessons in history that can guide us.. Time will tell
# posted by 
: October 24, 2009 5:17 PM
: October 24, 2009 5:17 PM
Very interesting indeed? One wonders about motive. Could there be oil on Bird island?
# posted by : October 24, 2009 10:26 PM
: October 24, 2009 10:26 PM
We have been hearing about Bird Island for so many years, no other leader did anything about it and you expect Skerrit to go to war for your little warped logic Jason Richards.
It doesn't matter if the Bird Island was right off Picard...History said Veneuela laid claim to it when we were still British Ruled. Why didn't England do something about it, why didn't France do something about it when we were colonized by France. So two huge countries with Nuclear power would let an Island with som much potential just pass on to Venezuela.
Jason, do you guys think before you write. Thompson, do you think and read those articles before you post them. England though a bloody war for the Faulkland Islands with Argentina,just a couple miles off Argentina's shore. And there was Bird Island with all the oil in the world and England and the powerful Shell and BP Corporations siad , no we are not interested in Bird Island's Oil.
It doesn't matter if the Bird Island was right off Picard...History said Veneuela laid claim to it when we were still British Ruled. Why didn't England do something about it, why didn't France do something about it when we were colonized by France. So two huge countries with Nuclear power would let an Island with som much potential just pass on to Venezuela.
Jason, do you guys think before you write. Thompson, do you think and read those articles before you post them. England though a bloody war for the Faulkland Islands with Argentina,just a couple miles off Argentina's shore. And there was Bird Island with all the oil in the world and England and the powerful Shell and BP Corporations siad , no we are not interested in Bird Island's Oil.
# posted by : October 25, 2009 10:55 AM
: October 25, 2009 10:55 AM
Anonymous you are clearly on the wrong side of history. Why do you think CARICOM was interested in taking up the issue? Why can't you respect a differing opinion?
I hear you to nsay that because you don't agree with jason he should not be allowed his say? Is that what you are being taught in Dominica? To stiffle any opposing views? Cudos to thedominican.net for allowing all points of view to contend....
I hear you to nsay that because you don't agree with jason he should not be allowed his say? Is that what you are being taught in Dominica? To stiffle any opposing views? Cudos to thedominican.net for allowing all points of view to contend....
# posted by : October 25, 2009 11:00 AM
: October 25, 2009 11:00 AM
Anonymous let's be clear. I will NOT censure any discourse that is factual and not libelous. We must understand that in a democracy there will be opposing points of view.
Because you feel that the debate on Bird Island should be stiffled is no reason why it should not be aired. It is important to respect the opinion of others while putting forward our own views.
Because you feel that the debate on Bird Island should be stiffled is no reason why it should not be aired. It is important to respect the opinion of others while putting forward our own views.
# posted by : October 25, 2009 11:57 AM
: October 25, 2009 11:57 AM
Susan and Thompson, I never said don't print stupid articles you know. I am just saying read them before you post them. Susan, what do you call Obama stiffling of Fox News or any other person with a differing view...I guess you call it the same democracy I call it...right????
Mamo had Reagan in her back pocket or purse and we could have done something with Bird Island and Venezuela. All Dominica got was a photo opportunity at the white house and a few plane flying over Dominica spraying unknown chemicals to kill marijuana.
Now we are getting much need hlp from Venezuela, then there has to be a secondary motive. The mentl slavery of poor black folks...WOW
Mamo had Reagan in her back pocket or purse and we could have done something with Bird Island and Venezuela. All Dominica got was a photo opportunity at the white house and a few plane flying over Dominica spraying unknown chemicals to kill marijuana.
Now we are getting much need hlp from Venezuela, then there has to be a secondary motive. The mentl slavery of poor black folks...WOW
# posted by : October 25, 2009 6:14 PM
: October 25, 2009 6:14 PM
Bird Island sovereignty issue - is not as new as being suggested in the article - and nor is claim of sovereignty base on geographic location - thus within Dominican waters - gives ownership; the author makes some interesting & noted observations for consideration.
However, the vexing question of Bird Island go way back to colonialism & imperialism. In 1857 - a Convention to submit the question of the dominion and sovereignty of Bird / Aves Island to the arbitration of a friendly power was effected. Although Queen Isabella II of Spain had a conflict of interest – due to the fact that her country considered Venezuela part of its sphere of influence - even if Venezuela became independent from Spain on July 5 1811, the child Queen was chosen.
I note that under today’s standards Spain would not have been a contender to be a fair arbitrator in this case, thus as my SMA history teacher Dave Cottingham would most likely say - the petulant child Queen Isabella II in a vaguely reasoned decision, arbitrated the dispute of Aves Rock i.e. Bird Island. The imperialist Queen awarded Bird Island to her former colony Venezuela – then an imperial arm of the colonial power the rights to Bird Island.
Can this decision be appealed? No. Dominica's claim to Bird Island is no stronger - to say if Venezuela makes a claim against Aruba - 50 miles off its' coast and within its territorial waters.
Unfortunately for us Dominicans, this is the basis of the Venezuelan claim. This history undermines the authors' suggested conclusion as to the motive behind the relationship between the two leaders.
Maybe they just really get along and want to help each other - sinister? Your guess is as good as mine.
Michael Davis
However, the vexing question of Bird Island go way back to colonialism & imperialism. In 1857 - a Convention to submit the question of the dominion and sovereignty of Bird / Aves Island to the arbitration of a friendly power was effected. Although Queen Isabella II of Spain had a conflict of interest – due to the fact that her country considered Venezuela part of its sphere of influence - even if Venezuela became independent from Spain on July 5 1811, the child Queen was chosen.
I note that under today’s standards Spain would not have been a contender to be a fair arbitrator in this case, thus as my SMA history teacher Dave Cottingham would most likely say - the petulant child Queen Isabella II in a vaguely reasoned decision, arbitrated the dispute of Aves Rock i.e. Bird Island. The imperialist Queen awarded Bird Island to her former colony Venezuela – then an imperial arm of the colonial power the rights to Bird Island.
Can this decision be appealed? No. Dominica's claim to Bird Island is no stronger - to say if Venezuela makes a claim against Aruba - 50 miles off its' coast and within its territorial waters.
Unfortunately for us Dominicans, this is the basis of the Venezuelan claim. This history undermines the authors' suggested conclusion as to the motive behind the relationship between the two leaders.
Maybe they just really get along and want to help each other - sinister? Your guess is as good as mine.
Michael Davis
# posted by : October 25, 2009 7:26 PM
: October 25, 2009 7:26 PM
I do not want to be accused of any attempt to stiffle free expression or free speech. However I believe that such expression must be educational, uplifting and as far as possible factual.
I will dismiss as POLITICAL SENSATIONALISM any article that is not researched, lack imperical evidence and just bare political rhetoric.
Mr. Michael Davis has given the historical perspective. This I have known from secondary school days and at Sixth Form College with MR. Henry Volney my History teacher. Dr. Lennox Honeychurch has on numerous occassions elaborate on the fact that Bird Island was and is seeded to Venezuela by the Queen of Spain since 1811 or there about.
Great Britain the then "Mother Country" never made a claim for Bird Island, No other Government of Dominica has ever made a claim for Bird Island, There was or is no OFFICIAL claim by the government of Dominica for Bird Island. How on earth that Hon. Roosevelt Skerrit's Government give up Dominica's "GROWING CLAIM" to Bird Island? When and where was Dominica's claim registered? Could Jason Richards please answer this. Who made and registered that claim?
If geological location gives a country right to claim another, then Great Britain had no right the go to war with Agentina over the Faulkland Islands. The fact is that these islands were seeded to the British Crown.
The fact of the matter is that Dominica never owned or had any claim to Bird Island, it was seeded to Venezuela by international convention in 1811 just like Esiquibo was deemed to be part of Guyana or Belize hatched out of Guatemala by the British in the 1700s.
I believe the assistance given to Dominica by Venezuela is done on the basis of mutual respect by both countries. Such assistance has assisted Dominica in many ways. A casual drive to Scotts Head will demonstrate such.
I will again state that such level of ANTI SKERRIT POLITICAL SENSATIONALISM will take the country Dominica no where and we should strive at this point in Dominica's history to debate the issues facing us in a manner which will elevate the debate in a factual and less sensational manner.
As professionals we need to elevate the debate in a manner that will uplift and educate.
Shirley Alcid
Economist
I will dismiss as POLITICAL SENSATIONALISM any article that is not researched, lack imperical evidence and just bare political rhetoric.
Mr. Michael Davis has given the historical perspective. This I have known from secondary school days and at Sixth Form College with MR. Henry Volney my History teacher. Dr. Lennox Honeychurch has on numerous occassions elaborate on the fact that Bird Island was and is seeded to Venezuela by the Queen of Spain since 1811 or there about.
Great Britain the then "Mother Country" never made a claim for Bird Island, No other Government of Dominica has ever made a claim for Bird Island, There was or is no OFFICIAL claim by the government of Dominica for Bird Island. How on earth that Hon. Roosevelt Skerrit's Government give up Dominica's "GROWING CLAIM" to Bird Island? When and where was Dominica's claim registered? Could Jason Richards please answer this. Who made and registered that claim?
If geological location gives a country right to claim another, then Great Britain had no right the go to war with Agentina over the Faulkland Islands. The fact is that these islands were seeded to the British Crown.
The fact of the matter is that Dominica never owned or had any claim to Bird Island, it was seeded to Venezuela by international convention in 1811 just like Esiquibo was deemed to be part of Guyana or Belize hatched out of Guatemala by the British in the 1700s.
I believe the assistance given to Dominica by Venezuela is done on the basis of mutual respect by both countries. Such assistance has assisted Dominica in many ways. A casual drive to Scotts Head will demonstrate such.
I will again state that such level of ANTI SKERRIT POLITICAL SENSATIONALISM will take the country Dominica no where and we should strive at this point in Dominica's history to debate the issues facing us in a manner which will elevate the debate in a factual and less sensational manner.
As professionals we need to elevate the debate in a manner that will uplift and educate.
Shirley Alcid
Economist
# posted by : October 25, 2009 9:45 PM
: October 25, 2009 9:45 PM
Mr. Richard, for the record. Mr. Chavez' last visit to Dominica did not take place in March of this year but, to be precise, on 13 June. A day that is forever etched in my memory, being one of the passengers stranded in the departure lounge of Melville Hall for up to seven hours, without any inquiries as to our well being, the offer of sustenance or any form of compensation, adequate explanation or even an apology. I am a Dominican and, as per a subsequent comment by a Prime Minister's emissary, such a mere inconvenience is the price we must pay for the greater good of our country, never mind the considerable extra expense and trouble I, and no doubt others incurred rearranging their travel plans.I have to believe that such a cavalier attitude does not reflect that of of our respective leaders and I do, apoligise to numerous non-Dominicans, who were similarly "inconvenienced" and pray this experience will not deter them from ever visiting us again.
Jan Bors
Jan Bors
# posted by : October 26, 2009 2:02 AM
: October 26, 2009 2:02 AM
Shirley come on..do you pretend to be more knowledgeable than the leaders of CARICOM who decided that they would pursue that claim. Stop looking through your red classes...
# posted by : October 26, 2009 7:16 AM
: October 26, 2009 7:16 AM
Let's stop fooling ourselves that all this attention from Chavez is because "HE LUV US". WE CAN BE so politically naive....may the heavens help us...
# posted by : October 26, 2009 7:19 AM
: October 26, 2009 7:19 AM
Frankly, I do hope that Venezuela under the leadership of Chavez, self styled as the great anti-colonial, anti imperialist and revolutionary President will continue to favor Dominica through his friendship with Prime Minister Roosevelt Skerrit.
I also hope that his favor leads to Venezuela giving up the sovereignty of Bird Island to Dominica just like when he President Hugo Chavez on the an anniversary of the Falklands War called for Britain to give up sovereignty to the Falkland Islands to Argentina, end British colonialism and give up imperialism.
Thus I hope the friendship keep on growing - because Dominica's so called growing claim to Bird Island is a clever hoax.
Michael Davis
I also hope that his favor leads to Venezuela giving up the sovereignty of Bird Island to Dominica just like when he President Hugo Chavez on the an anniversary of the Falklands War called for Britain to give up sovereignty to the Falkland Islands to Argentina, end British colonialism and give up imperialism.
Thus I hope the friendship keep on growing - because Dominica's so called growing claim to Bird Island is a clever hoax.
Michael Davis
# posted by : October 26, 2009 7:25 AM
: October 26, 2009 7:25 AM
I praise the Prime Minister of my country, Dominica, for actually keeping close ties to other leaders of the Caribbean and for the work that he has fostered to help bring our country closer to a potential Caribbean Block. I extend my praise even more, especially as I personally think its time to start thinking Caribbean instead of the status quo of trying to be American or European.
Caribbean territories, its people, its businesses, and its academic institutions have long been stifled by an inability to develop due to external forces. For years, the region's location, rich culture, skilled human resources, perfect weather, and endless natural resources have all been exploited by others for their own personal development. This exploitation separated the Caribbean, into many small self-managed territories which left each islands poor and uncompetitive in the global arena. However, bringing them back together thru a strong and true Caribbean Union can help remove this friction which has marginalized Caribbean institutional competitiveness, wealth, and prestige and can further help mobilize the people to take their destiny into their own hands, to strive for their own goals, and defend their own borders. Caribbean people are constantly treated as "third-world beggars" where simple favors by others are considered privileges. The regional health systems are considered below standard (even though they are capable of performing every known medical procedure just as well as any other) and tons of expired drugs and medical supplies are dumped upon them in the name of donations...and the region's rich culture has constantly been misused and abused by big labels for their own development. As a matter of fact, we have constantly seen where most talented Caribbean citizens have been targeted by other nations to lure them away from the region by some sought of attractive nursing scheme, or a teachers scheme, or a sports scheme, or a music/arts scheme...all causing a brain-drain and massive outward migration of the "cream of the crop" of our people. This in turn sniffle the economies of the territories and prevents the steady needed development required to stay competitive in this new economically driven world. Thus, the time for a strong union of all Caribbean territories is needed to aid with these problems and to create an attractive region where our people would be proud to be part of the Caribbean, were this deep sense of belonging and patriotism coupled with hard work and motivation would be the pivot of a strong economy and the building blocks of a new powerful nation. It is time our people feel comfortable and proud to be Caribbean and not some dual citizenry, or some other country’s citizenship!
The creation of CARICOM, its CSSE, and even this new ALBA trade block are all great steps in the direction of bringing the Caribbean together. Of course there are a lot more work to be done before we can become a single nation but certainly all this negative talk will not help. Instead, the various Caribbean countries should be talking with each other and working together to solve the many internal problems. Right now, we don’t need to unit and not just shot words of separation!
Caribbean territories, its people, its businesses, and its academic institutions have long been stifled by an inability to develop due to external forces. For years, the region's location, rich culture, skilled human resources, perfect weather, and endless natural resources have all been exploited by others for their own personal development. This exploitation separated the Caribbean, into many small self-managed territories which left each islands poor and uncompetitive in the global arena. However, bringing them back together thru a strong and true Caribbean Union can help remove this friction which has marginalized Caribbean institutional competitiveness, wealth, and prestige and can further help mobilize the people to take their destiny into their own hands, to strive for their own goals, and defend their own borders. Caribbean people are constantly treated as "third-world beggars" where simple favors by others are considered privileges. The regional health systems are considered below standard (even though they are capable of performing every known medical procedure just as well as any other) and tons of expired drugs and medical supplies are dumped upon them in the name of donations...and the region's rich culture has constantly been misused and abused by big labels for their own development. As a matter of fact, we have constantly seen where most talented Caribbean citizens have been targeted by other nations to lure them away from the region by some sought of attractive nursing scheme, or a teachers scheme, or a sports scheme, or a music/arts scheme...all causing a brain-drain and massive outward migration of the "cream of the crop" of our people. This in turn sniffle the economies of the territories and prevents the steady needed development required to stay competitive in this new economically driven world. Thus, the time for a strong union of all Caribbean territories is needed to aid with these problems and to create an attractive region where our people would be proud to be part of the Caribbean, were this deep sense of belonging and patriotism coupled with hard work and motivation would be the pivot of a strong economy and the building blocks of a new powerful nation. It is time our people feel comfortable and proud to be Caribbean and not some dual citizenry, or some other country’s citizenship!
The creation of CARICOM, its CSSE, and even this new ALBA trade block are all great steps in the direction of bringing the Caribbean together. Of course there are a lot more work to be done before we can become a single nation but certainly all this negative talk will not help. Instead, the various Caribbean countries should be talking with each other and working together to solve the many internal problems. Right now, we don’t need to unit and not just shot words of separation!
# posted by : October 26, 2009 8:48 AM
: October 26, 2009 8:48 AM
I am not a student of History but I believe that the expose' of Michael Davis and Shirley Alcid has condemmed the article of Jason Richards as pure political rhetoric.
I would like to ask what has the Governments of Cuba, St Vincent or Nicaragua had to give up to receive development assistance from Venezuela.
Clearly the so called claim to Bird Island is pure Political Nonsense and has no legal basis under international law.
Dominica never had Sovereignty over Bird Island, Bird Island has never been part of Dominica. Great Britain the then colonial power never made a bid for Bird Island, What therefore is the basis for Skerrit to give up the "Claim for Bird Island" Where that claim is comming from?
Jason while I recognise your God given right to expression your opinion freely, it is my view that such opinion must be researched, factual and lack political bias.
It would be very appreciative if Mr. Skerrit could use his friendship with Mr Hugo Chavez to get Venezuela to give up its Sovereignity over Bird Island. This is my fervent hope. However Dominica does not have any legal rights over Bird Island and as such any So called claim would be illigitimate.
Therefore the Government cannot give up somthing it never had in the first place. As someone said earlier Such so called claim is just a POLITICAL HOAX.
Barzey
I would like to ask what has the Governments of Cuba, St Vincent or Nicaragua had to give up to receive development assistance from Venezuela.
Clearly the so called claim to Bird Island is pure Political Nonsense and has no legal basis under international law.
Dominica never had Sovereignty over Bird Island, Bird Island has never been part of Dominica. Great Britain the then colonial power never made a bid for Bird Island, What therefore is the basis for Skerrit to give up the "Claim for Bird Island" Where that claim is comming from?
Jason while I recognise your God given right to expression your opinion freely, it is my view that such opinion must be researched, factual and lack political bias.
It would be very appreciative if Mr. Skerrit could use his friendship with Mr Hugo Chavez to get Venezuela to give up its Sovereignity over Bird Island. This is my fervent hope. However Dominica does not have any legal rights over Bird Island and as such any So called claim would be illigitimate.
Therefore the Government cannot give up somthing it never had in the first place. As someone said earlier Such so called claim is just a POLITICAL HOAX.
Barzey
# posted by : October 26, 2009 9:35 AM
: October 26, 2009 9:35 AM
Intellectual prostitution at its best! Dominica's greatest enemies are it;s so called academics both at home and abroad. Dr. Fontaine do not allow the Skeritt apologist to bully you out of speaking the truth, this is what they need, this is what they want, to stiffle the truth by any means necessary! their modus operandi is to create as much confusion as posssiple, this is how the dictatorial, corrupt regimes like the ones they hold up and defend survive.
Zapper back from the haitus
Zapper back from the haitus
# posted by : October 26, 2009 9:06 PM
: October 26, 2009 9:06 PM
Ha ha ha...Shirley and her Zapper alias are both back on the stange after they sold their soul to the devil and their cetizenery to the Americans!
# posted by : October 27, 2009 7:23 AM
: October 27, 2009 7:23 AM
well is should I perceive that comment as a welcome back anonymous October 27th 7.23 AM or a go to hell? You are calling my America the devil? I resent that. I am a proud American citizen, just as I was a proud citizen of Dominica.
Shirley Allan
Shirley Allan
# posted by : October 27, 2009 8:14 AM
: October 27, 2009 8:14 AM
Why cant Zapper, Shirley Allan et al keep the discourse at the level and high standard required. They consistently bring down the standard of the debate. In so doing they also bring down the standard of this medium.
I am in no way attemping to stiffle expression
I am in no way attemping to stiffle expression
# posted by : October 27, 2009 9:26 AM
: October 27, 2009 9:26 AM
Shirley Allan Alias Zapper, Please do the reading public and yourself a very good favor. This is also for the prestige of this news forum.
If the discourse is above your level and standard or understanding please do not write any comment. This is by no means trying to stiffle your freedom of expression.
Jude Nicholas
Stock Farm
Dominica
If the discourse is above your level and standard or understanding please do not write any comment. This is by no means trying to stiffle your freedom of expression.
Jude Nicholas
Stock Farm
Dominica
# posted by : October 27, 2009 11:53 AM
: October 27, 2009 11:53 AM
Just can't help it!!!! Just make it about Shirley!! hahahaha! You people are amusing me so very much! funnier than any comedian I have ever listened to or watched. Aboslutely hilarious. Anytime I want belly aching laughter I read this message board.
Shirley
Shirley
# posted by : October 27, 2009 1:27 PM
: October 27, 2009 1:27 PM
Just don't get so involved with Chavez that you scare the American tourists away.
I was around when the soldiers were in Dominica and they were very polite and
did no harm but it doesn't take much to screw with tourism and you have so bet
the farm on tourism. Good luck balancing all this.
White American who likes to visit Dominica
I was around when the soldiers were in Dominica and they were very polite and
did no harm but it doesn't take much to screw with tourism and you have so bet
the farm on tourism. Good luck balancing all this.
White American who likes to visit Dominica
# posted by : October 27, 2009 9:13 PM
: October 27, 2009 9:13 PM
ALBA is an alternative to the forever exploitative Northern powers of the World Bank & IMF. Dominica has and will only benefit from such an alliance. Via Dame Eugenia Charles & Ronald Reagan re the Grenada invasion, we have been through the illusion that the closeness in ideology to US leaders and governments result in more developmental aid. I also agree that aid sought from countries like Venezuela should tie into a long term economic development strategy rather than short term electioneering strategies. White American who likes to visit Dominica, I hope that Dominica's tourism product will diversify is not be totally dependent on white American tourists. Also many white American tourists empathize with Chavez you may know. Americans are not that naive as we've seen through the election of President Obama.
# posted by : October 27, 2009 10:55 PM
: October 27, 2009 10:55 PM
Bird Island isn't really the prize here. If Venezuelas claim is recognized then it can claim a vast area of the Caribbean between the island and mainland as it's own territorial waters and all oil exploration in that area as it's own. Just as America has hundreds of oil rigs in the Gulf of Mexico because it drew a line from the tip of Florida to the bottom of Texas and said all of that water was their territory.
# posted by : October 28, 2009 12:45 AM
: October 28, 2009 12:45 AM
Anonymous @ 12:45 AM on October 28 is on point.
Indeed Venezuela’s EEZ/continental shelf claim of up to 200 miles north of Bird Island of the Caribbean Sea is the Greater Prize and as well as a Caribbean Island DISASTER!
Bird Island is located 90 miles off Dominica’s north western coast and 350 miles north of the Venezuelan coast - thus Venezuela’s combine EEZ/continental shelf claim of the Caribbean Sea would be over 550 miles - butting onto the Leeward, and British and US Virgin islands.
Bird Island effectively moves the Venezuelan coast line 350 miles north from its South American sea shore, thereby the Venezuelan EEZ/continental shelf claim 200 miles north of Bird Island - effectively extending its control over a large domineering portion of the eastern Caribbean Sea; According to the United Nations, Dominica, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Antigua & Barbuda, Saint Lucia, Grenada, and Saint Vincent and the Grenadines – all member countries of OECS – protest Venezuela's full effect of the EEZ claim.
I humbly submit for debate.
Michael Davis
Indeed Venezuela’s EEZ/continental shelf claim of up to 200 miles north of Bird Island of the Caribbean Sea is the Greater Prize and as well as a Caribbean Island DISASTER!
Bird Island is located 90 miles off Dominica’s north western coast and 350 miles north of the Venezuelan coast - thus Venezuela’s combine EEZ/continental shelf claim of the Caribbean Sea would be over 550 miles - butting onto the Leeward, and British and US Virgin islands.
Bird Island effectively moves the Venezuelan coast line 350 miles north from its South American sea shore, thereby the Venezuelan EEZ/continental shelf claim 200 miles north of Bird Island - effectively extending its control over a large domineering portion of the eastern Caribbean Sea; According to the United Nations, Dominica, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Antigua & Barbuda, Saint Lucia, Grenada, and Saint Vincent and the Grenadines – all member countries of OECS – protest Venezuela's full effect of the EEZ claim.
I humbly submit for debate.
Michael Davis
# posted by : October 28, 2009 8:10 AM
: October 28, 2009 8:10 AM
Shavez is just learning the game from the American play book. And to White American who likes to visit Dominica, please don't try this American strategy of threatening other independent nations that you will pull out...if they don't do what you say! You have pulled out from Cuba over 30 years now and they have been doing way better than many other Caribbean islands who foolishly stuck close to America. Unfortunately, other ediots followed America against Cuba but as we have seen that is slowly changing. So to you White American who likes to visit Dominica, pull out away from every other nation with your American bullying ways and we will see how wonderful your economy will do. Don't forget, no one man is an island!!! This is not the 1900 but instead 2009-2010.
# posted by : October 28, 2009 8:12 AM
: October 28, 2009 8:12 AM
White American who likes to visit Dominica, we Dominicans will deal with Chavez at the same level you guys in NYC deals with him every winter when he gives you all the millions of gallon of free heating oil!
# posted by : October 28, 2009 8:15 AM
: October 28, 2009 8:15 AM
A fully United Caribbean, as I suggested earlier, made up of all the territories in the arc of islands that forms the Caribbean chain from Bermuda and the Bahamas, in the north to Guyana and Suriname in the south....from Belize in the west to Barbados in the east would solve many Caribbean problems including that of Bird Island.
Consisting of all countries touched by the Caribbean Sea, including mainland territories of Central and South America, this new Caribbean Union does make a lot of sense. As a matter of fact, Venezuela has presently shown interest in CARICOM and now ALBA. Today, we see that Guyana, Suriname, as well as Belize are also members of CARICOM. I must admit that at first it will not be easy to convince all Caribbean territories to join in. But, after the new Caribbean has successfully demonstrated that its members can function as one and how beneficial it is to do so, we will see that it will just be a matter of time for the rest of the territories to request full fledged membership. Further, my suggesting to invite Venezuela, French Guiana, and even Columbia to join in the union would recreate the true original Caribbean of the region’s native Indians and would also give the new Caribbean a bigger presence on the mainland...thus allowing a larger population and room for growth (two needed characteristics to build and maintain a competitive economy).
This new One-Caribbean would most of all get rid of long lasting boarder disputes between Venezuela and the islands as well as those between Venezuela and Columbia, between Venezuela and Guyana, between Guyana and Suriname, between Suriname and French Guiana, and between Belize and Guatemala. And we should not forget that as we in the Caribbean face the teeth of globalization, we can survive remaining the small single island territories we are today, or else we will have to face the harsh realities. We cannot continue to remain small entities against the big worldly giants. We need to stop fighting each other, we need to put our strength and energy together and unite now!
Consisting of all countries touched by the Caribbean Sea, including mainland territories of Central and South America, this new Caribbean Union does make a lot of sense. As a matter of fact, Venezuela has presently shown interest in CARICOM and now ALBA. Today, we see that Guyana, Suriname, as well as Belize are also members of CARICOM. I must admit that at first it will not be easy to convince all Caribbean territories to join in. But, after the new Caribbean has successfully demonstrated that its members can function as one and how beneficial it is to do so, we will see that it will just be a matter of time for the rest of the territories to request full fledged membership. Further, my suggesting to invite Venezuela, French Guiana, and even Columbia to join in the union would recreate the true original Caribbean of the region’s native Indians and would also give the new Caribbean a bigger presence on the mainland...thus allowing a larger population and room for growth (two needed characteristics to build and maintain a competitive economy).
This new One-Caribbean would most of all get rid of long lasting boarder disputes between Venezuela and the islands as well as those between Venezuela and Columbia, between Venezuela and Guyana, between Guyana and Suriname, between Suriname and French Guiana, and between Belize and Guatemala. And we should not forget that as we in the Caribbean face the teeth of globalization, we can survive remaining the small single island territories we are today, or else we will have to face the harsh realities. We cannot continue to remain small entities against the big worldly giants. We need to stop fighting each other, we need to put our strength and energy together and unite now!
# posted by : October 28, 2009 8:48 AM
: October 28, 2009 8:48 AM
WOW!! everything is revealing itself! Dominica seems to be already armed for Chavez's war with America. I see some serious fighting words coming out.. Good riddance Dominicans, zort par feb. All this talk boils to one thing trading one colonial master for another. Giving up the devil you know for the devils you don't know anyone including of learned economists and lawyers and the the rest of our happy fool who really believes that what Chavez is doing in Dominica is because of love for Dominica is the bigger fool that I would have imagined. Time will tell.. I agreed with Dr. Aaron then, I still agree with the premise of his article on this same medium before the invisible hands got to him!
Shirley Allan
Shirley Allan
# posted by : October 28, 2009 10:09 AM
: October 28, 2009 10:09 AM
White American who likes to visit Dominica, we Dominicans will deal with Chavez at the same level you guys in NYC deals with him every winter when he gives you all the millions of gallon of free heating oil!
# posted by Anonymous : October 28, 2009 8:15 AM
Nice post but the oil giveaway was a political move for Chavez to piss off Bush.
It has nothing to do with the state of affairs in New England and I think the
deal is over. I am only concerned about trading one evil master for another. At
some point the price to be paid will be collected and I hope the price will not
be the soul of Dominica. Now to be fair Chavez does not bother me as most of
what he does is for some kind of show but I can't say the same a large percentage
of Americans (USA) would be too happy about it. Don't think the Canadians care at
all about Chavez.
As far as the comment above saying Americans are more understanding of Chavez
because they elected Oboma all I have to say is close to 1/2 the people still
voted for Bush so don't underestamate the ability for the American Voters to
be stubborn and vote for some imaginary America they believe is real and good
etc etc etc.
White guy in America
# posted by Anonymous : October 28, 2009 8:15 AM
Nice post but the oil giveaway was a political move for Chavez to piss off Bush.
It has nothing to do with the state of affairs in New England and I think the
deal is over. I am only concerned about trading one evil master for another. At
some point the price to be paid will be collected and I hope the price will not
be the soul of Dominica. Now to be fair Chavez does not bother me as most of
what he does is for some kind of show but I can't say the same a large percentage
of Americans (USA) would be too happy about it. Don't think the Canadians care at
all about Chavez.
As far as the comment above saying Americans are more understanding of Chavez
because they elected Oboma all I have to say is close to 1/2 the people still
voted for Bush so don't underestamate the ability for the American Voters to
be stubborn and vote for some imaginary America they believe is real and good
etc etc etc.
White guy in America
# posted by : October 28, 2009 5:12 PM
: October 28, 2009 5:12 PM
Shavez is just learning the game from the American play book. And to White American who likes to visit Dominica, please don't try this American strategy of threatening other independent nations that you will pull out...if they don't do what you say! You have pulled out from Cuba over 30 years now and they have been doing way better than many other Caribbean islands who foolishly stuck close to America. Unfortunately, other ediots followed America against Cuba but as we have seen that is slowly changing. So to you White American who likes to visit Dominica, pull out away from every other nation with your American bullying ways and we will see how wonderful your economy will do. Don't forget, no one man is an island!!! This is not the 1900 but instead 2009-2010.
# posted by Anonymous : October 28, 2009 8:12 AM
Please don't include me in your American Bullying ways comment. I did not say
that. I said that if you get too close to Chavez Tourism could suffer. It does
not bother me but remember 1/2 the people voted for Bush over Obama. They could
be bothered. You already have bet the farm on Tourism. Do you really think that
Canada and Venezuala can replace the American Tourist dollars ?? If you do we
shall see won't we.
No need to get defensive with me. I think the Cuban situation is stupid and most
Americans (US) also agree. You are confusing Americans (US) with our government
policies. As far as Cuba goes it has exchanged masters from The Soviet Union to
depending on Venezuala. Do I care well no I don't. Many Americans (US) are tired
of being the so called leader of the free world. I am and I shall leave it at
that.
Good Day!
# posted by Anonymous : October 28, 2009 8:12 AM
Please don't include me in your American Bullying ways comment. I did not say
that. I said that if you get too close to Chavez Tourism could suffer. It does
not bother me but remember 1/2 the people voted for Bush over Obama. They could
be bothered. You already have bet the farm on Tourism. Do you really think that
Canada and Venezuala can replace the American Tourist dollars ?? If you do we
shall see won't we.
No need to get defensive with me. I think the Cuban situation is stupid and most
Americans (US) also agree. You are confusing Americans (US) with our government
policies. As far as Cuba goes it has exchanged masters from The Soviet Union to
depending on Venezuala. Do I care well no I don't. Many Americans (US) are tired
of being the so called leader of the free world. I am and I shall leave it at
that.
Good Day!
# posted by : October 28, 2009 5:25 PM
: October 28, 2009 5:25 PM
white guy in the United States : October 28, 2009 5:25 PM:
Thank you for visiting our lovely home, and, thank you for your concern. Please come back and bring your friends!
PS: When a pitch is thrown into the dirt - don't try to hit the ball, (ignore it at most of us did) unless you are playing cricket, then the hit to the dirt by the ball will only affect the spin or pace of the ball - thus you may be able to square cut to the boundary ...
Note to Editor: Free speech is great. We may need to have a debate on Constructive vs Destructive blogging.
Peace
Thank you for visiting our lovely home, and, thank you for your concern. Please come back and bring your friends!
PS: When a pitch is thrown into the dirt - don't try to hit the ball, (ignore it at most of us did) unless you are playing cricket, then the hit to the dirt by the ball will only affect the spin or pace of the ball - thus you may be able to square cut to the boundary ...
Note to Editor: Free speech is great. We may need to have a debate on Constructive vs Destructive blogging.
Peace
# posted by : October 28, 2009 5:57 PM
: October 28, 2009 5:57 PM
Oh I see, shut them up if they don't say what we are saying! Uhmm...
# posted by : October 29, 2009 8:20 AM
: October 29, 2009 8:20 AM
White American who likes to visit Dominica,
No the oil aid to the north-eastern states,especially in NYC is not over. It went on last year under Obama and is still going on this winter. So no, Chavez’s help to the poor Americans who can not afford to heat their homes during winter was not just to get President Bush mad but maybe -just maybe- Chavez does indeed follows a code of helping poor people. It may be hard to understand that, but yes, beside America and the UK other people in the world do help the under privilege…and some even do it with no strings attached!
In the beginning, Chavez was so loved by the Americans when he use to buy all sought of expensive military weapons and his arm forces were trained by the Americans and everything was (as we would say it here in Dominica) Irie! The Americans were getting rich so everything was cool the way things should be. The Americans also loved him because his country has the 2nd largest oil and natural gas reserve in the world and there is great potential for the Americans to do some grabbing. And if America can get their hands on those natural resources, then the Big Yankee Boys will just get richer!!! But little did they know that Chavez was not for sale.
Instead, Chavez’s ideology was and has always been one of helping the poor and oppressed through nationwide Bolivarian Missions, whose goals are to combat disease, illiteracy, malnutrition, poverty, and other social ills. Under this ideology, Chavez’s government has launched anti-poverty initiatives, the construction of thousands of free medical clinics for the poor, the institution of educational campaigns that have reportedly made more than one million adult Venezuelans literate, and the enactment of food and housing subsidies. To add to that, Chavez has also openly opposed neoliberalism, globalization, and United States foreign policy (help with strings attached). Oh, that mad the Yanks angry. How dear him put their ills out in the open like that?
Long story short, today the yanks and their cronies all labels Chavez as everything negative and is made to be the devil. Yet, what have Chavez done in return, he continued his Bolivarian style missions and extended the help for the poor to the Caribbean, other Latin American countries, and some states in the United States. Many thinks that he has the worse of reasons for wanting to help the Caribbean (maybe to turn them into zombies-I can’t think of anything worse) but beside your insinuation of wanting to piss President Bush off, I have yet to hear a sinister reason for giving millions of FREE heating oil to Americans for the past five years.
White American who likes to visit Dominica, you may be a good guy and I have meet many wonderful, pure-hearted Americans but I hate to be the one to tell you that there exist many other good people elsewhere outside of America and the UK!
No the oil aid to the north-eastern states,especially in NYC is not over. It went on last year under Obama and is still going on this winter. So no, Chavez’s help to the poor Americans who can not afford to heat their homes during winter was not just to get President Bush mad but maybe -just maybe- Chavez does indeed follows a code of helping poor people. It may be hard to understand that, but yes, beside America and the UK other people in the world do help the under privilege…and some even do it with no strings attached!
In the beginning, Chavez was so loved by the Americans when he use to buy all sought of expensive military weapons and his arm forces were trained by the Americans and everything was (as we would say it here in Dominica) Irie! The Americans were getting rich so everything was cool the way things should be. The Americans also loved him because his country has the 2nd largest oil and natural gas reserve in the world and there is great potential for the Americans to do some grabbing. And if America can get their hands on those natural resources, then the Big Yankee Boys will just get richer!!! But little did they know that Chavez was not for sale.
Instead, Chavez’s ideology was and has always been one of helping the poor and oppressed through nationwide Bolivarian Missions, whose goals are to combat disease, illiteracy, malnutrition, poverty, and other social ills. Under this ideology, Chavez’s government has launched anti-poverty initiatives, the construction of thousands of free medical clinics for the poor, the institution of educational campaigns that have reportedly made more than one million adult Venezuelans literate, and the enactment of food and housing subsidies. To add to that, Chavez has also openly opposed neoliberalism, globalization, and United States foreign policy (help with strings attached). Oh, that mad the Yanks angry. How dear him put their ills out in the open like that?
Long story short, today the yanks and their cronies all labels Chavez as everything negative and is made to be the devil. Yet, what have Chavez done in return, he continued his Bolivarian style missions and extended the help for the poor to the Caribbean, other Latin American countries, and some states in the United States. Many thinks that he has the worse of reasons for wanting to help the Caribbean (maybe to turn them into zombies-I can’t think of anything worse) but beside your insinuation of wanting to piss President Bush off, I have yet to hear a sinister reason for giving millions of FREE heating oil to Americans for the past five years.
White American who likes to visit Dominica, you may be a good guy and I have meet many wonderful, pure-hearted Americans but I hate to be the one to tell you that there exist many other good people elsewhere outside of America and the UK!
# posted by : October 29, 2009 9:06 AM
: October 29, 2009 9:06 AM
Hahaha! Of course Chavez is doing what he is doing for pure,altruistic reasons!! He just loves Americans so much! More than he does the Venezulans, two thirds of them in abject poverty and depriving them of their freedom. I am a Naom Chumsky portegee, I read all his books. Confessions of an Ecomonic Hitman really solidified the evils of neoliberalism for me, so there is no one more anti-neoliberalism than me, but I don;t think Dominica's marriare with Chavez is in Dominica's interest on the contrary I think. it is to Dominica's detriment
That's my opinion.
Shirley Allan
That's my opinion.
Shirley Allan
# posted by : October 29, 2009 11:05 AM
: October 29, 2009 11:05 AM
Shirley, Shirley, Shirley...you just love to here yourself...Paix Bouche.
# posted by : October 29, 2009 12:00 PM
: October 29, 2009 12:00 PM
Miss Allan, there is no one country in the world without poverty. I know that you are aware of how much poverty exists in the USA today. I have driven pass towns in the USA and saw goats tie under stilt wooden houses just like in any Dominican village and I have volunteered at the many soup-kitchens where lines of hungry people go get their one meal for the day. I have also seen hundreds of homeless in many American towns and cities, especially in the DC area, a stone throw away from the white house. So, please don’t come bring that poverty in Venezuela talk. No other country spends as much as the USA does on their military and wars, yet there exists all the above mentioned poverty. No one questions the way they ignore that poverty and choose to spend Trillions on their military and wars!
So by you trying to use this old American line-stick to measure and bring down Venezuela’s Bolivarian style missions of helping the poor of the region will not work around us, the very people who have seen that physical goodwill. Its time that you and others realize that America is just one nation out of many nations on this wonderful earth of ours. Their system is not the God-given salvation for all of us. Yes, there may be many good things about the American way but we have the right to choose what we like about that system and what we just don’t want any part of. And we also reserve the right to choose the good parts of other systems! Miss Allan, not all of us want t live in America. I know it is hard to understand, but some of us only like to vacation in the USA just like we do everywhere else but would never live there. But again, I can not expect everyone to be 100% patriotic (not half or a quarter or dual with somewhere else) to their land of birth when there are so many bells and mirrors advertised to make people believe that it’s a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow! Ha ha ha, I can’t tell you how many stories I have heard of how people dropped everything they had and moved to the USA and now crying how things are so hard and only if they had know…..!!!
So by you trying to use this old American line-stick to measure and bring down Venezuela’s Bolivarian style missions of helping the poor of the region will not work around us, the very people who have seen that physical goodwill. Its time that you and others realize that America is just one nation out of many nations on this wonderful earth of ours. Their system is not the God-given salvation for all of us. Yes, there may be many good things about the American way but we have the right to choose what we like about that system and what we just don’t want any part of. And we also reserve the right to choose the good parts of other systems! Miss Allan, not all of us want t live in America. I know it is hard to understand, but some of us only like to vacation in the USA just like we do everywhere else but would never live there. But again, I can not expect everyone to be 100% patriotic (not half or a quarter or dual with somewhere else) to their land of birth when there are so many bells and mirrors advertised to make people believe that it’s a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow! Ha ha ha, I can’t tell you how many stories I have heard of how people dropped everything they had and moved to the USA and now crying how things are so hard and only if they had know…..!!!
# posted by : October 29, 2009 12:13 PM
: October 29, 2009 12:13 PM
Anonymous : October 29, 2009 12:00 PM I do not like to me myself talk as much as I like to get under all skin, and make all you demonstate all you hypocisy and arrogant ignorance.. That I love!!! It gives me much pleasure. And guess what? I give everything you say to me as insults meaning, you don't. I have two assessments: laughable, ignorant! it is always one or the other.
Shirley Allan
Shirley Allan
Shirley Allan
Shirley Allan
# posted by : October 29, 2009 1:18 PM
: October 29, 2009 1:18 PM
Anonymous : October 29, 2009 12:13 PM thank you for your reply, indeed you are making some valid points that I agree with. Foremost among them is the view that no one system has all the answers or is the best system, and that there is poverty everywhere, I am very much aware of the poverty right here in America.
I never said explicitly, nor have I implied that America has the best system, I do have my problems with America, but one of the things I love about America is that I have the freedom to express my views without being lynched for them as I do with my Dominican folk. My freedom of speech and thought means so much to me, I value that more than anything in this whole wide world, I couldn't live in any country where people were or attempting to deny me of that. So Dominica is out, at least for now.
I invite you to go to my website at http://www.samadas.talkspot.com/and read for yourself my criticisms of America and some of their policies. But that does not mean that I cannot see the danger in that marriage between Dominica and Venezula.
Shirley Allan
I never said explicitly, nor have I implied that America has the best system, I do have my problems with America, but one of the things I love about America is that I have the freedom to express my views without being lynched for them as I do with my Dominican folk. My freedom of speech and thought means so much to me, I value that more than anything in this whole wide world, I couldn't live in any country where people were or attempting to deny me of that. So Dominica is out, at least for now.
I invite you to go to my website at http://www.samadas.talkspot.com/and read for yourself my criticisms of America and some of their policies. But that does not mean that I cannot see the danger in that marriage between Dominica and Venezula.
Shirley Allan
# posted by : October 29, 2009 1:29 PM
: October 29, 2009 1:29 PM
Sorry but the Oil aid to New England in USA ended last January. The price
of oil fell too far for them to continue. If you don't believe me check
the story on the internet. Chavez needs the USA as he cannot refine much
of his own oil due to the chemical nature of it. He has to send most of
it to the USA to refine. Citgo a gas station company in the USA which
runs 14,000 gas stations is wholly owned by the venezualian government
through a holding company. The point is our economies are very much cross
connected.
I have never seen such a reaction to a statement that if you get to close
to Chavez it could bother the conservatives in the US so that they will
not come to Dominica to visit. I do not doubt Chavez has a kind side to
him but he also is a dictator...a kind hearted one at that but he does take
things that don't belong to him. He does foster revolution in neighborhood
countries and yes I know so does the USA in its own corporate way.
Embrace Chavez/China/ or Corporate USA or whatever but they will all look
for there own interests not Dominica interests. I would prefer groups of
islands bang togeather and create economic interests for there own interests.
of oil fell too far for them to continue. If you don't believe me check
the story on the internet. Chavez needs the USA as he cannot refine much
of his own oil due to the chemical nature of it. He has to send most of
it to the USA to refine. Citgo a gas station company in the USA which
runs 14,000 gas stations is wholly owned by the venezualian government
through a holding company. The point is our economies are very much cross
connected.
I have never seen such a reaction to a statement that if you get to close
to Chavez it could bother the conservatives in the US so that they will
not come to Dominica to visit. I do not doubt Chavez has a kind side to
him but he also is a dictator...a kind hearted one at that but he does take
things that don't belong to him. He does foster revolution in neighborhood
countries and yes I know so does the USA in its own corporate way.
Embrace Chavez/China/ or Corporate USA or whatever but they will all look
for there own interests not Dominica interests. I would prefer groups of
islands bang togeather and create economic interests for there own interests.
# posted by : October 29, 2009 1:33 PM
: October 29, 2009 1:33 PM
White Guy in America, Chavez is using the modus operandi of every dictator through Skeritt. Keep the people in ignorance, feed them, take away their dignity and independence from them, and they will die for you. It does not even make sense to try to reason with them. That would be putting their very sustenance at stake. That's what this dictator and his hand picked portegee have brought my people.
Shirley Allan
Shirley Allan
# posted by : October 29, 2009 2:44 PM
: October 29, 2009 2:44 PM
White guy in USA,
I know for a fact that some people in the USA received the free Venezuelan oil last winter and further know that the program is still on this coming winter in places like NYC. Just check Joe Kennedy’s website:(http://www.citizensenergy.com/english/pages/OilHeatProgram). I don’t want this to become an argument but what do you mean by Chavez needs the USA as he cannot refine much of his own oil…? Is the USA doing it for free or doing him a favor? I wonder who needs who the most. I’ll tell you, the USA only refines the oil that they need for themselves or the oil that they will make a fat profit from. Just ask the guys at HESS OIL where more than 65% of their raw crude is the Venezuelan Sweet-Crude. If the Americans don’t do it the Chinese or the Japanese will be glad to have it!
Anyway, my white brother, I do understand the point you are making about the conservatives in the USA and the way they think. After all, they are the same people that constantly complain about our West Indian/Caribbean Day in Eastern Parkway Brooklyn, Miami Carnival, Boston Carnival, Chicago Carnival, ect. Some even complain about our skin color, or accents, our different languages, ect. These conservatives just like to complain about everything others do but do it themselves in private (I watch US news and see the conservative in high positions and the ills that they do). Personally, I think that this type of stuck-up people can stay under the rock where they live. However, if they want to come enjoy some of our Caribbean tropical sun and fun, they are welcome just as long as they are aware that they need to leave their stuck-up ways under their rocks. And why do you think that we in the Caribbean would make policies base on what a bunch of stuck-ups in the USA thinks? This is not Uncle Sam’s country!
While I agree with the points you made about the conservatives not liking Chavez, I disagree with your choice of words you use to call a Caribbean leader. Why do you think he is a dictator? The last time I checked, a dictator is a ruler who assumes sole and absolute power with military control but, without hereditary ascension such as an absolute monarch. Uhmm! The last time I also checked, Chavez got in power as the leader of Venezuela by a democratic election. He was also re-elected by a democratic election! Yes, like Mayor Bloomberg in NYC, Chavez requested to change the term limits but was not successful with that referendum. However, Mayor Bloomberg did change the term limits without a referendum but Chavez got the bad name. Uhhm, dictator?
As I said in a previous post, it was necessary for the USA and many others to label Chavez with everything negative because he pointed out the ills of American foreign policies. If you throw as much mud – evil names, one must stick! Had Chavez stooped down and allowed the USA to control all Venezuela’s oil, then he would not have been labeled as a dictator.
When Chavez got into power, 95% of Venezuela’s wealth was controlled by 5% of the people (most being foreigners). So through his Bolivarian programs, Chavez’s government took back control of the county’s natural resources and allowed Venezuelans to now control their affairs. Of course that reduce the fat profits the Yanks were making and an angel became the devil!
I know for a fact that some people in the USA received the free Venezuelan oil last winter and further know that the program is still on this coming winter in places like NYC. Just check Joe Kennedy’s website:(http://www.citizensenergy.com/english/pages/OilHeatProgram). I don’t want this to become an argument but what do you mean by Chavez needs the USA as he cannot refine much of his own oil…? Is the USA doing it for free or doing him a favor? I wonder who needs who the most. I’ll tell you, the USA only refines the oil that they need for themselves or the oil that they will make a fat profit from. Just ask the guys at HESS OIL where more than 65% of their raw crude is the Venezuelan Sweet-Crude. If the Americans don’t do it the Chinese or the Japanese will be glad to have it!
Anyway, my white brother, I do understand the point you are making about the conservatives in the USA and the way they think. After all, they are the same people that constantly complain about our West Indian/Caribbean Day in Eastern Parkway Brooklyn, Miami Carnival, Boston Carnival, Chicago Carnival, ect. Some even complain about our skin color, or accents, our different languages, ect. These conservatives just like to complain about everything others do but do it themselves in private (I watch US news and see the conservative in high positions and the ills that they do). Personally, I think that this type of stuck-up people can stay under the rock where they live. However, if they want to come enjoy some of our Caribbean tropical sun and fun, they are welcome just as long as they are aware that they need to leave their stuck-up ways under their rocks. And why do you think that we in the Caribbean would make policies base on what a bunch of stuck-ups in the USA thinks? This is not Uncle Sam’s country!
While I agree with the points you made about the conservatives not liking Chavez, I disagree with your choice of words you use to call a Caribbean leader. Why do you think he is a dictator? The last time I checked, a dictator is a ruler who assumes sole and absolute power with military control but, without hereditary ascension such as an absolute monarch. Uhmm! The last time I also checked, Chavez got in power as the leader of Venezuela by a democratic election. He was also re-elected by a democratic election! Yes, like Mayor Bloomberg in NYC, Chavez requested to change the term limits but was not successful with that referendum. However, Mayor Bloomberg did change the term limits without a referendum but Chavez got the bad name. Uhhm, dictator?
As I said in a previous post, it was necessary for the USA and many others to label Chavez with everything negative because he pointed out the ills of American foreign policies. If you throw as much mud – evil names, one must stick! Had Chavez stooped down and allowed the USA to control all Venezuela’s oil, then he would not have been labeled as a dictator.
When Chavez got into power, 95% of Venezuela’s wealth was controlled by 5% of the people (most being foreigners). So through his Bolivarian programs, Chavez’s government took back control of the county’s natural resources and allowed Venezuelans to now control their affairs. Of course that reduce the fat profits the Yanks were making and an angel became the devil!
# posted by : October 29, 2009 4:26 PM
: October 29, 2009 4:26 PM
Shirley Allan,
I think you need to go back to your doctor and upgrade your medication dosage. That multi-personality thing is showing big time! One minute you are talking with such intelligence and the very next minute your are communicating with all the characteristics of a total idiot!
I think you need to go back to your doctor and upgrade your medication dosage. That multi-personality thing is showing big time! One minute you are talking with such intelligence and the very next minute your are communicating with all the characteristics of a total idiot!
# posted by : October 29, 2009 4:39 PM
: October 29, 2009 4:39 PM
You see demonstrating your arrogant ignorance as I expect you to. One thing for sure is that you people never disappoint me. Playing right into my hands, and my neurotic fantacies! and you know I find this one extremely laughable to. By the way did you make a contribution to the issue at hand, or you prefer to concentrate on Shirley Allan.. I know you just can't help it! I just love it. Speaks for itself dosen't it. Self evidentm just keep on talking! Maybe I am mutli-personality. if you were as smart as you say you are you would know Every person has different moods, and may function differently in different situations or at different times. Every person has conflicts and may be torn between alternatives about how to handle a situation or problem. It is not uncommon for people to make comments such as, "He's a different man since.....etc." The fact that you may sometimes be quiet, sometimes gregarious, sometimes "up" or sometimes "down", sometimes patient and other times irritable does not mean that you have multiple personalities. And you would also know that if you are not a psychologist you are not qulified to do a psychodiagnosis on anyone, and if you do whatever your diagnosis is is invalid.. Hahah. One thing I know with absolute certainty as crazy, and stupid, and whatever else you people say I am, I am power over you guys.. I am the thorn in your flesh and I an enjoying it. I would not take my medication just to keep on stinging you Smart people. very smart people. very smart indeed!!1
Shirley Allan
Shirley Allan
# posted by : October 29, 2009 4:58 PM
: October 29, 2009 4:58 PM
My very good friend I just realized that you profess to be my friend. But with friends like you who needs enemies!! Thanks for your friendship, but no thanks. I would rather has disclosed enemies than to have friends like you! I think you are the sick one, if you think your kind of freindship ie welcomed.
Shirley Allan
Shirley Allan
# posted by : October 29, 2009 5:16 PM
: October 29, 2009 5:16 PM
This blog began as a discussion about the D/ca PM, Bird Island, Caribbean sea, EEZ zones and Hugo Chavez led Venezuela.
This intellectual discussion somehow transcended into a gossip about someone called Shirley Allan, an unknown white guy and domestic Venezuelan politics?
Why???????
This intellectual discussion somehow transcended into a gossip about someone called Shirley Allan, an unknown white guy and domestic Venezuelan politics?
Why???????
# posted by : October 29, 2009 7:33 PM
: October 29, 2009 7:33 PM
Could you believe that? Anonymous : October 29, 2009 7:33 PM? It is easy to tell why. It is called intolerance of other people's views, those self proclaimed intelligent people who blog here, don't know how to disagree with others people's views agreeably, whether they think what people are saying is idotic or not. What is wrong with these people? They think they are the only ones who have the right to speak their idiocy.
Instead they attack people for no other reason than they can't understand where the people are coming from, they don't agree, or they don't like it.. This is so pathetic!! If they are they are so intelligent as they profess to be they would just make their intelligent contribution and ignore the idiocy of the idiots like Shirley Allan. What is so difficult about that? This is what common sense dictates, forget about all the smart stuff. Dominichen famy Waychen! They will eat you alive, all it takes is for one waychen to take a bite and let blood in the water for all the other waychen to come and finish eating their victim of. It's fun to watch though. Guess what other people besides Dominican are watching to. Nice performance Dominicans.
Zapper
Instead they attack people for no other reason than they can't understand where the people are coming from, they don't agree, or they don't like it.. This is so pathetic!! If they are they are so intelligent as they profess to be they would just make their intelligent contribution and ignore the idiocy of the idiots like Shirley Allan. What is so difficult about that? This is what common sense dictates, forget about all the smart stuff. Dominichen famy Waychen! They will eat you alive, all it takes is for one waychen to take a bite and let blood in the water for all the other waychen to come and finish eating their victim of. It's fun to watch though. Guess what other people besides Dominican are watching to. Nice performance Dominicans.
Zapper
# posted by : October 29, 2009 8:41 PM
: October 29, 2009 8:41 PM
I don't know it could be constuctive. I am the unknown white guy. I think it is
important when I post that I say who I am and where I come from thus my white
guy from the USA name. I have a different perspective than a native Dominican
and I want people to know that I am not a Dominican. I don't think I told anyone
what to think or whatever. I just said a price might be paid getting to close
to Chavez. I believe the Island countries have a more common interest to band
together rather than trade USA for China or Venezuala. I have no Colonial interests in Dominica. I find the country to be unique and the people to be
some of the kindest people I have ever met. I have great hope for Dominica
but trading one country looking out for its own interests for another is spinning
your wheels.
Peace!!
White guy from USA
important when I post that I say who I am and where I come from thus my white
guy from the USA name. I have a different perspective than a native Dominican
and I want people to know that I am not a Dominican. I don't think I told anyone
what to think or whatever. I just said a price might be paid getting to close
to Chavez. I believe the Island countries have a more common interest to band
together rather than trade USA for China or Venezuala. I have no Colonial interests in Dominica. I find the country to be unique and the people to be
some of the kindest people I have ever met. I have great hope for Dominica
but trading one country looking out for its own interests for another is spinning
your wheels.
Peace!!
White guy from USA
# posted by : October 29, 2009 9:27 PM
: October 29, 2009 9:27 PM
White guy from USA,
Yes some of us in Dominica have move from being farmers to being tour operators and tourist experts just like in your country many have switch their profession from being car makers to solar-panel makers or from Wall Street executives to now being teachers. But in your country you guys switch your professions without any external people pressure but based solely on your internal problems. We in Dominica have done the same base on what we think is best for our country. We have made and will continue to make decisions in our country on our own and not because external people want us to make them.
When we are guest in your country (with either visas, green cards, or borrowed dual citizenships) your government and people take the pleasure of pushing us around and telling us what to do and when to do it. When we are in our own country, the one place where we are 100% independent, we would like to have the liberty to make our own decisions without your people having anything to do with the decisions that we make. Yes, our economies are interconnected so we will keep that in mind but the bottom line is we will make the BEST decisions for Dominica!
Yes some of us in Dominica have move from being farmers to being tour operators and tourist experts just like in your country many have switch their profession from being car makers to solar-panel makers or from Wall Street executives to now being teachers. But in your country you guys switch your professions without any external people pressure but based solely on your internal problems. We in Dominica have done the same base on what we think is best for our country. We have made and will continue to make decisions in our country on our own and not because external people want us to make them.
When we are guest in your country (with either visas, green cards, or borrowed dual citizenships) your government and people take the pleasure of pushing us around and telling us what to do and when to do it. When we are in our own country, the one place where we are 100% independent, we would like to have the liberty to make our own decisions without your people having anything to do with the decisions that we make. Yes, our economies are interconnected so we will keep that in mind but the bottom line is we will make the BEST decisions for Dominica!
# posted by : October 30, 2009 7:24 AM
: October 30, 2009 7:24 AM
Well here is one dellusional Dominican who thinks that Dominica as a country is decing for itself. Maybe this person did not listen to the PM's testimony in the Shangrila case in the BVI!! Dominicans your country is not independent! International crooks are deciding and even writing for your prime ,minister what they want him to do!!!
Zapper
Zapper
# posted by : October 30, 2009 8:04 AM
: October 30, 2009 8:04 AM
Zapper,
Prime Ministers come and Pime Ministers go but Dominica will still be there an independent Caribbean nation!
Prime Ministers come and Pime Ministers go but Dominica will still be there an independent Caribbean nation!
# posted by : October 30, 2009 8:51 AM
: October 30, 2009 8:51 AM
OK guys - I got it; you like to insult each other - instead of dealing with issues. Got it!
Now that you have done so - what about the discussion began by Jason Richards, expanded and detailed by several other bloggers - yes Ms. Allan the lawyers and economist - the intelligentsia as you say - - - what about these issues - D/ca PM role, re Bird Island and Venezuela's EEZ zones claim which may lead to its' Caribbean sea domination and Hugo Chavez led Venezuela role in building a three story building on Bird Island after bring stones from Venezuela to shore up and expand Bird Island?
Do you need a photographic evidence?
Can we deal with the issues instead of the personalities of individual bloggres?
Why??????? & Peace
Now that you have done so - what about the discussion began by Jason Richards, expanded and detailed by several other bloggers - yes Ms. Allan the lawyers and economist - the intelligentsia as you say - - - what about these issues - D/ca PM role, re Bird Island and Venezuela's EEZ zones claim which may lead to its' Caribbean sea domination and Hugo Chavez led Venezuela role in building a three story building on Bird Island after bring stones from Venezuela to shore up and expand Bird Island?
Do you need a photographic evidence?
Can we deal with the issues instead of the personalities of individual bloggres?
Why??????? & Peace
# posted by : October 30, 2009 9:34 AM
: October 30, 2009 9:34 AM
First of all the thesis of this article was the cozy realationship between Skeritt and Chavez, but everyone seem to be taking what they want from it.. I believe this is the message that the author of this article wanted to convey.. The realtionship between Chavez and Skeritt. This is the issue. I have already said my piece of it. Unfortunately the waychens got to me for my opinion of the relationship and they keep coming!
Shirley Allan
Shirley Allan
# posted by : October 30, 2009 11:09 AM
: October 30, 2009 11:09 AM
When I engaged White-Guy-from-USA in my previous post I tried to point out that there is nothing generally wrong with Chavez, except the angry rhetoric spread around by the US and friends because they are annoyed that Chavez didn’t allow them control of Venezuela’s natural resources. I further pointed out that there should not be anything wrong for our Prime Minister, or our Country on a whole, to have close ties with Chavez or any other Caribbean country. As a matter of fact, I totally support the contribution by BrianL: October 28, 2009 8:48 AM which suggests that Dominica and other Caribbean nations should move to develop a single Caribbean block, so to survive comfortably in this global economical chaos.
As far as Bird Island is concern, I think a few earlier contributions explained it best and put things to rest. Dominica NEVER had claim to that alto and thus is not being cheated by Venezuela. On the other hand, I can point to other small islands/altos in the Caribbean Sea that are in dispute and no one is talking about them as being land grab or leads to Caribbean Sea domination.
Have anyone heard of the USA Guano Act? Do some reading all you want-to-be anti-Chavez/Skerrit journalist and report on the whole issue if you want to speak about Caribbean Sea domination. Speak about this crooked American law call the Guano Act that gives the USA and its citizens the God-given right (as they put it) to take possession of ANY island containing guano (bird-shit) deposits. Islands can be located anywhere, so long as they are not occupied, this law empower the President of the United States to use the USA military to take possession of and protect such interests, and establishes the criminal jurisdiction of the United States. You should also point out blatant land grab and Caribbean Sea domination with the example of Navassa Island, a real island that was owned by a Caribbean nation and blatantly taken by the USA. Incase you didn’t know, despite claim by Haiti under international marine laws and at the UN, Navassa Island which is between Haiti and Jamaica (but well into Haitian waters) was taken over by the United States in 1857, the third island to be claimed under the Guano Islands Act of 1856, because of the island's guano deposits. Up to this present day, the USA ignores all laws and denies Haiti ownership of their island.
So please don’t bring up this stupid Bird Island talk and play politics with it to either put the leader of Dominica or any other Caribbean country down. If you want to talk land grab and Caribbean Sea domination then let us discus the whole issue. Jason Richards, Shirely Allan and others can talk all the nonsense they want when they want to play politics or oppose Chavez but if we are not careful, one day the USA can just put claim to Dominica because it has bird-shit and there is nothing that we can do about it, for they have their God-given right to do so!!
As far as Bird Island is concern, I think a few earlier contributions explained it best and put things to rest. Dominica NEVER had claim to that alto and thus is not being cheated by Venezuela. On the other hand, I can point to other small islands/altos in the Caribbean Sea that are in dispute and no one is talking about them as being land grab or leads to Caribbean Sea domination.
Have anyone heard of the USA Guano Act? Do some reading all you want-to-be anti-Chavez/Skerrit journalist and report on the whole issue if you want to speak about Caribbean Sea domination. Speak about this crooked American law call the Guano Act that gives the USA and its citizens the God-given right (as they put it) to take possession of ANY island containing guano (bird-shit) deposits. Islands can be located anywhere, so long as they are not occupied, this law empower the President of the United States to use the USA military to take possession of and protect such interests, and establishes the criminal jurisdiction of the United States. You should also point out blatant land grab and Caribbean Sea domination with the example of Navassa Island, a real island that was owned by a Caribbean nation and blatantly taken by the USA. Incase you didn’t know, despite claim by Haiti under international marine laws and at the UN, Navassa Island which is between Haiti and Jamaica (but well into Haitian waters) was taken over by the United States in 1857, the third island to be claimed under the Guano Islands Act of 1856, because of the island's guano deposits. Up to this present day, the USA ignores all laws and denies Haiti ownership of their island.
So please don’t bring up this stupid Bird Island talk and play politics with it to either put the leader of Dominica or any other Caribbean country down. If you want to talk land grab and Caribbean Sea domination then let us discus the whole issue. Jason Richards, Shirely Allan and others can talk all the nonsense they want when they want to play politics or oppose Chavez but if we are not careful, one day the USA can just put claim to Dominica because it has bird-shit and there is nothing that we can do about it, for they have their God-given right to do so!!
# posted by : October 30, 2009 3:41 PM
: October 30, 2009 3:41 PM
Ok disconnect my responses to those waychen who always come forward to tear me to bits and pieces and summarize everything that I have posted on this board reagarding the Dominica/Skeritt-Venezula/Chavez relationship, if you look at it well and be honest this.. You will conlude that in a nutshell, I am saying that I don't think this relationship is in the best interest of Dominica. That those who believe that this relationship is based on altruistic motives are misguided and they just need to go back to history to understand the geopolitical games and the consequences of those games expecially for countries as vulnerbale as our little Dominica and I am sticking to my story.
I do not speak about issues that I am not very well versed on, so I am not getting into the Bird Island discussion. But I never said that Dominica should be alligned with America instead of Venerzula. I know enough about Latin American, Caribbean, North American, Middle East, Asian, European, African history to come to my own conclusions about who is who and what is what..
I have a 386 pages book called "Tell the Children the Truth" which I wrote to myself, it addreses most of the issues of colonialism and neo-liberalism. I may not be one of the smart, educated, intelligent Dominicans, But I know what I know. Some think I am an idiot that's fine dosen;t change anything.
Shirley Allan
I do not speak about issues that I am not very well versed on, so I am not getting into the Bird Island discussion. But I never said that Dominica should be alligned with America instead of Venerzula. I know enough about Latin American, Caribbean, North American, Middle East, Asian, European, African history to come to my own conclusions about who is who and what is what..
I have a 386 pages book called "Tell the Children the Truth" which I wrote to myself, it addreses most of the issues of colonialism and neo-liberalism. I may not be one of the smart, educated, intelligent Dominicans, But I know what I know. Some think I am an idiot that's fine dosen;t change anything.
Shirley Allan
# posted by : October 30, 2009 6:06 PM
: October 30, 2009 6:06 PM
But Shirley, this is what you wrote in an earlier post:
White Guy in America, Chavez is using the modus operandi of every dictator through Skeritt. Keep the people in ignorance, feed them, take away their dignity and independence from them, and they will die for you. It does not even make sense to try to reason with them. That would be putting their very sustenance at stake. That's what this dictator and his hand picked portegee have brought my people.
-Shirley Allan-
What have Chavez done that made you certain to characterize him as a dictator? Are you bassing this name calling on actual facts that you have that can show that Chavez is a real dictator and not just a lable that was given to him by the greedy Yanks? Please share the facts that clearly points Chavez to being a dictator...and please consult the dictionary for the proper meaning of the word dictator 1st.
White Guy in America, Chavez is using the modus operandi of every dictator through Skeritt. Keep the people in ignorance, feed them, take away their dignity and independence from them, and they will die for you. It does not even make sense to try to reason with them. That would be putting their very sustenance at stake. That's what this dictator and his hand picked portegee have brought my people.
-Shirley Allan-
What have Chavez done that made you certain to characterize him as a dictator? Are you bassing this name calling on actual facts that you have that can show that Chavez is a real dictator and not just a lable that was given to him by the greedy Yanks? Please share the facts that clearly points Chavez to being a dictator...and please consult the dictionary for the proper meaning of the word dictator 1st.
# posted by : October 30, 2009 7:48 PM
: October 30, 2009 7:48 PM
The Left-Wing Fascist (sic)?
The National Guard or state police force in Venezuela has been accused of intimidation and bullying tactics of opposition, reminiscent of the Mussolini brownshirts in the 1930's. It is also troubling that nationalism and xenophobia are seemingly fostered by the government, combined with a push to have the population loyal to Chávez and not to the country. He has created a cult of personality about himself, creating the illusion to the masses that he is infallible; as a speaker Chávez has a bombastic style, literally working his audience up into a frenzy.
Chávez seems also to aspire to unite much of South America's sentiment against foreigners, notably the United States. He speaks of a continental vision, but clearly not without much influence from himself.
Personal Life
Chávez has four children, Rosa Virginia, María Gabriela, Hugo Rafael, and Rosinés, and has been married twice. He is currently separated from his second wife after cheating on her and being caught with a female government officer, Maripili Hernandez.
Chávez reportedly suffers from numerous health problems, such as colds, digestive disorders, asthma and kidney problems. He is very devoted to his family, which is evident that he has appointed numerous family members to key posts, including his father (Governor of State) and his brother Adan (Ambassador to Cuba and broker of many deals with Cuba).
The Fascist Regime in the Caribbean- Gustavo Coronel http://hrw.org/english/docs/2004/12/14/venezu9864.htm http://hrw.org/english/docs/2005/03/24/venezu10368.htm http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/mannes200412140820.asp http://www.biografiasyvidas.com/biografia/c/Chávez_hugo.htm &prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhugo%2BChávez%2B biografia%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG http://www.biography.ms/Hugo_Ch%E1vez.html htpp://www.11abril.com/index/especiales/asi_paga_el_diablo.pdf "This is the way the Devil pays". Lt. Pineda Castellanos
http://www.dictatorofthemonth.com/Chavez/Jun2005ChavezEN.htm
Shirley Allan
The National Guard or state police force in Venezuela has been accused of intimidation and bullying tactics of opposition, reminiscent of the Mussolini brownshirts in the 1930's. It is also troubling that nationalism and xenophobia are seemingly fostered by the government, combined with a push to have the population loyal to Chávez and not to the country. He has created a cult of personality about himself, creating the illusion to the masses that he is infallible; as a speaker Chávez has a bombastic style, literally working his audience up into a frenzy.
Chávez seems also to aspire to unite much of South America's sentiment against foreigners, notably the United States. He speaks of a continental vision, but clearly not without much influence from himself.
Personal Life
Chávez has four children, Rosa Virginia, María Gabriela, Hugo Rafael, and Rosinés, and has been married twice. He is currently separated from his second wife after cheating on her and being caught with a female government officer, Maripili Hernandez.
Chávez reportedly suffers from numerous health problems, such as colds, digestive disorders, asthma and kidney problems. He is very devoted to his family, which is evident that he has appointed numerous family members to key posts, including his father (Governor of State) and his brother Adan (Ambassador to Cuba and broker of many deals with Cuba).
The Fascist Regime in the Caribbean- Gustavo Coronel http://hrw.org/english/docs/2004/12/14/venezu9864.htm http://hrw.org/english/docs/2005/03/24/venezu10368.htm http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/mannes200412140820.asp http://www.biografiasyvidas.com/biografia/c/Chávez_hugo.htm &prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhugo%2BChávez%2B biografia%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG http://www.biography.ms/Hugo_Ch%E1vez.html htpp://www.11abril.com/index/especiales/asi_paga_el_diablo.pdf "This is the way the Devil pays". Lt. Pineda Castellanos
http://www.dictatorofthemonth.com/Chavez/Jun2005ChavezEN.htm
Shirley Allan
# posted by : October 30, 2009 11:28 PM
: October 30, 2009 11:28 PM
Folks - what about the potential domination of the Caribbean Sea as the EEZ zone of Venezuela - if Bird Island is recognized as an habitable island instead of a rock where birds shit.
I am grateful for Chavez's "investments" in Dominica through his friendship with PM Skerrit. But Chavez is a thug, who believes in a failed European ideology.
FOR EXAMPLE:
CIUDAD OJEDA, Venezuela (Reuters) -- Five months after Venezuela nationalized dozens of oil service contractors in Zulia state, the once-bustling industrial dock on Lake Maracaibo is nearly abandoned, and the 16 red flags raised to celebrate the takeovers are already tattered and faded.
A few small groups of workers remain, hoping to get the jobs they were promised after the expropriations.
Many workers on the eastern shores of the lake have protested or gone on hunger strikes to demand jobs promised them after President Hugo Chavez's government expropriated 76 oil services companies on the Maracaibo Lake. The western region has a long history of oil production.
As part of his drive to install socialism in the OPEC nation, Chavez expropriated the companies contracted by state-run PDVSA, with promises of social prosperity and worker justice.
Over the months since then, protests have intensified so much the government sent troops to control the discontented workers. Many of the protesters sewed their lips together and chained their hands and feet to call the president's attention to their plight.
The raft of nationalizations in Venezuela since 2007 has brought pressures on the government to improve lives for workers. But petroleum revenues have dropped with crude oil prices in the recession, leaving Venezuela without funds to fulfill the promises made to gain worker support.
"If we took control of these businesses to continue exploiting workers, it would have made no sense to nationalize them," Rafael Ramirez, energy minister and president of PDVSA, said in July, predicting a bright future for the workers.
The situation has repeated itself in various nationalized industries, putting pressure on Chavez to demonstrate his oft-repeated assertion his government advocates for workers.
Analysts believe Chavez's popularity, which is still above 50 percent, could suffer from worker discontent as families with falling incomes struggle with double-digit inflation and cutbacks in state subsidies.
PDVSA says in the next months it will appraise the occupied assets and provide compensation, despite the fact that the state owes its suppliers a debt of around $4.5 billion.
Experts said production in west Maracaibo has a capacity of up to 1 million barrels per day (bpd). But experts say its rate of decline has accelerated since nationalizations.
A few meters away, an enormous fence plastered with Chavez's likeness reads: "Proud of the rescue of our docks."
PS: the Guano Islands Act of 1856 was used by the US to mine bird shit on Bird Island. BUT today 2009 the Guano Islands Act of 1856 can't be used to take over Dominica, because under international law norms the Guano Islands Act of 1856 is outdated AND it is NO longer Law in the US!
Peace
I am grateful for Chavez's "investments" in Dominica through his friendship with PM Skerrit. But Chavez is a thug, who believes in a failed European ideology.
FOR EXAMPLE:
CIUDAD OJEDA, Venezuela (Reuters) -- Five months after Venezuela nationalized dozens of oil service contractors in Zulia state, the once-bustling industrial dock on Lake Maracaibo is nearly abandoned, and the 16 red flags raised to celebrate the takeovers are already tattered and faded.
A few small groups of workers remain, hoping to get the jobs they were promised after the expropriations.
Many workers on the eastern shores of the lake have protested or gone on hunger strikes to demand jobs promised them after President Hugo Chavez's government expropriated 76 oil services companies on the Maracaibo Lake. The western region has a long history of oil production.
As part of his drive to install socialism in the OPEC nation, Chavez expropriated the companies contracted by state-run PDVSA, with promises of social prosperity and worker justice.
Over the months since then, protests have intensified so much the government sent troops to control the discontented workers. Many of the protesters sewed their lips together and chained their hands and feet to call the president's attention to their plight.
The raft of nationalizations in Venezuela since 2007 has brought pressures on the government to improve lives for workers. But petroleum revenues have dropped with crude oil prices in the recession, leaving Venezuela without funds to fulfill the promises made to gain worker support.
"If we took control of these businesses to continue exploiting workers, it would have made no sense to nationalize them," Rafael Ramirez, energy minister and president of PDVSA, said in July, predicting a bright future for the workers.
The situation has repeated itself in various nationalized industries, putting pressure on Chavez to demonstrate his oft-repeated assertion his government advocates for workers.
Analysts believe Chavez's popularity, which is still above 50 percent, could suffer from worker discontent as families with falling incomes struggle with double-digit inflation and cutbacks in state subsidies.
PDVSA says in the next months it will appraise the occupied assets and provide compensation, despite the fact that the state owes its suppliers a debt of around $4.5 billion.
Experts said production in west Maracaibo has a capacity of up to 1 million barrels per day (bpd). But experts say its rate of decline has accelerated since nationalizations.
A few meters away, an enormous fence plastered with Chavez's likeness reads: "Proud of the rescue of our docks."
PS: the Guano Islands Act of 1856 was used by the US to mine bird shit on Bird Island. BUT today 2009 the Guano Islands Act of 1856 can't be used to take over Dominica, because under international law norms the Guano Islands Act of 1856 is outdated AND it is NO longer Law in the US!
Peace
# posted by : October 31, 2009 8:52 AM
: October 31, 2009 8:52 AM
Several small Eastern Caribbean islands and Venezuela are to ask international law experts to determine whether a small piece of largely uninhabitable rock near Dominica and Antigua can be deemed as an island and if so, how an exclusive zone it would generate would affect a host of nearby islands.
The issue of whether Bird Island, or Isla de Aves, is an island or a rock is now engaging the attention of Canadian international law experts Caribbean governments have hired in recent months as the two sides move to settle the issue.
In the last two years, the government of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has seen it fit to increase official activity on the piece of rock jutting out of the Caribbean Sea near Dominica, holding baptisms, weddings and other ceremonies under navy supervision.
The heightened activity has caught the attention of the international media and has led to pressure on governments to discuss the issue and try to settle it once and for all.
Is this why Chavez is investing in Skerrit led Dominica? To get the Rock classified as an island under international law of the sea thus extending Venezuela's coast 350 miles north from its shoreline thus an EEZ of 200 miles from the Bird Island coast?
This would led to Venezuela DOMINATING and owning the Caribbean Sea - a major set back not only for Dominica but all OECS islands?
Can we deal with the issue at hand instead of the personalities of individual bloggres?
Jason Richards' question is a valid question. Ms. Allan what you have failed to realize is that several other bloggers EXPANDED the analysis to say it was not the CLAIM to Bird Island, BUT the Venezuela EEZ Continental Claim which would lead to the DOMINATION of the Caribbean Sea
Why??????? & Peace
The issue of whether Bird Island, or Isla de Aves, is an island or a rock is now engaging the attention of Canadian international law experts Caribbean governments have hired in recent months as the two sides move to settle the issue.
In the last two years, the government of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has seen it fit to increase official activity on the piece of rock jutting out of the Caribbean Sea near Dominica, holding baptisms, weddings and other ceremonies under navy supervision.
The heightened activity has caught the attention of the international media and has led to pressure on governments to discuss the issue and try to settle it once and for all.
Is this why Chavez is investing in Skerrit led Dominica? To get the Rock classified as an island under international law of the sea thus extending Venezuela's coast 350 miles north from its shoreline thus an EEZ of 200 miles from the Bird Island coast?
This would led to Venezuela DOMINATING and owning the Caribbean Sea - a major set back not only for Dominica but all OECS islands?
Can we deal with the issue at hand instead of the personalities of individual bloggres?
Jason Richards' question is a valid question. Ms. Allan what you have failed to realize is that several other bloggers EXPANDED the analysis to say it was not the CLAIM to Bird Island, BUT the Venezuela EEZ Continental Claim which would lead to the DOMINATION of the Caribbean Sea
Why??????? & Peace
# posted by : October 31, 2009 9:05 AM
: October 31, 2009 9:05 AM
On the subject of nepotism we should not forget Asrubal Chavez, a cousin of Hugo Chavez, who now occupies the number two spot at the state oil company PDVSA, in charge of trading & supply, heads up that company's shipping subsidiary PDV Marina and sits on the board of the well known U.S.A. gazoline supplier CITGO. He also is in charge of the Dominican registered company PDV Caribe Dominica Ltd., that owns the storage- and distribution facilities at Jimmit in Dominica and which is nominally headed locally by the Hon. Reginasl Austrie, a cabinet minister.
Jay
Jay
# posted by : October 31, 2009 9:42 AM
: October 31, 2009 9:42 AM
I am having a meltdown, what i wrote is totally wrong.
Shirley Allan
Shirley Allan
# posted by : October 31, 2009 9:59 AM
: October 31, 2009 9:59 AM
When the USSR was dismantled and the Berlin Wall fell, the president of USSR was labeled a monster just a few months earlier by the Americans but after he did what the Americans wanted he became a saved-soul. Today he is welcomed in the USA with all his dirty money and even owns property in America. I am mentioning this to show how the USA is quick to label people and unlabelled people base on how much America can or cannot get what they want from these people. Today, Chavez of Venezuela is getting the same treatment.
Shirley, all the characteristics you gave about Chavez’s public and personal life to indicate that he is a dictator can easily be tagged on most American Senators or Representatives in the American Congress today. For example, Senator McCain left his cripple wife and mother of his children who stood by his side while he was MIA in Vietnam and ran and marry a wealthy woman and is still married to her today. There was nothing wrong with that, right? Suffering from numerous health problems and appointing family and friends to public positions is nothing new and is open in and by American public officers. For example, when JFK was president, he made his brother Attorney General (one of the highest positions of the land). Further, if cheating on one’s wife makes them dictators then using this characteristic, both you and I know that there are many dictators in America. Of course a glass with half water in it can either be half full or half empty, depending on your state of mind at the time. With that in mind, Venezuela’s national guard or state police reminds you of the Mussolini brownshirts in the 1930's. However, these organizations remind me of the CIA of the USA, the IDF or Israel, as well as the many national guards and special forces in most democratic nations of the world. To each his own to use his own methods and tactics to protect and defend his country’s national assets. Just look at the extent the USA went after 911 and the many known laws that were broken in the name of national security. There was nothing wrong with that, right? It was normal and no dictator was present there. Shirley, I have learn to filter the USA propaganda when I read and trust me there is a lot out there…so your sources don’t mean much!
Shirley, all the characteristics you gave about Chavez’s public and personal life to indicate that he is a dictator can easily be tagged on most American Senators or Representatives in the American Congress today. For example, Senator McCain left his cripple wife and mother of his children who stood by his side while he was MIA in Vietnam and ran and marry a wealthy woman and is still married to her today. There was nothing wrong with that, right? Suffering from numerous health problems and appointing family and friends to public positions is nothing new and is open in and by American public officers. For example, when JFK was president, he made his brother Attorney General (one of the highest positions of the land). Further, if cheating on one’s wife makes them dictators then using this characteristic, both you and I know that there are many dictators in America. Of course a glass with half water in it can either be half full or half empty, depending on your state of mind at the time. With that in mind, Venezuela’s national guard or state police reminds you of the Mussolini brownshirts in the 1930's. However, these organizations remind me of the CIA of the USA, the IDF or Israel, as well as the many national guards and special forces in most democratic nations of the world. To each his own to use his own methods and tactics to protect and defend his country’s national assets. Just look at the extent the USA went after 911 and the many known laws that were broken in the name of national security. There was nothing wrong with that, right? It was normal and no dictator was present there. Shirley, I have learn to filter the USA propaganda when I read and trust me there is a lot out there…so your sources don’t mean much!
# posted by : October 31, 2009 10:22 AM
: October 31, 2009 10:22 AM
...continuation
Yes, Venezuela did take actions against the many illegal oil companies that controlled 95% of the counties natural resources. It made sense as I mentioned in an earlier post, to have state control of these natural resources. History has taught us that all countries that have allowed foreign countries or companies to control their natural resources always end up getting the shorter end of the stick. The Greedy companies and Countries that have been deprived the privileges to steal these countries natural wealth, of course will label the country or its leader that took their fat profits away as everything negative. And what is the point being made about Venezuelan workers protesting because their company was closed down? Is that wrong? Have we seen that happened elsewhere lately? Oh yes, its going on right now in the USA!!!
If the Guano Islands Act of 1856 is NO longer Law in the USA, then why doesn’t the United States give back Haiti full control of Navassa Island which was stolen by using this crooked law? Why haven’t any of the other islands stolen with this doctorial law returned to their rightful owners?
I know that every human has faults (including Chavez)but that is not a reason to label another with words that have been used to label the worse of teh world who have done real serious harm. Chavez is no Hitler! I also know that countries like the USA will quickly make others believe that someone is a devil when they cannot get their way with that person. I have seen that happened to many Caribbean leaders who in their small way just asked to give their country the chance to control its own resources and control its own development as they see it best. The Americans just can not understand why others will not allow them to have a say in their own business. Or is it because they are so greedy that they just want every wealth generating development in the world.
Yes, Venezuela did take actions against the many illegal oil companies that controlled 95% of the counties natural resources. It made sense as I mentioned in an earlier post, to have state control of these natural resources. History has taught us that all countries that have allowed foreign countries or companies to control their natural resources always end up getting the shorter end of the stick. The Greedy companies and Countries that have been deprived the privileges to steal these countries natural wealth, of course will label the country or its leader that took their fat profits away as everything negative. And what is the point being made about Venezuelan workers protesting because their company was closed down? Is that wrong? Have we seen that happened elsewhere lately? Oh yes, its going on right now in the USA!!!
If the Guano Islands Act of 1856 is NO longer Law in the USA, then why doesn’t the United States give back Haiti full control of Navassa Island which was stolen by using this crooked law? Why haven’t any of the other islands stolen with this doctorial law returned to their rightful owners?
I know that every human has faults (including Chavez)but that is not a reason to label another with words that have been used to label the worse of teh world who have done real serious harm. Chavez is no Hitler! I also know that countries like the USA will quickly make others believe that someone is a devil when they cannot get their way with that person. I have seen that happened to many Caribbean leaders who in their small way just asked to give their country the chance to control its own resources and control its own development as they see it best. The Americans just can not understand why others will not allow them to have a say in their own business. Or is it because they are so greedy that they just want every wealth generating development in the world.
# posted by : October 31, 2009 10:22 AM
: October 31, 2009 10:22 AM
Did you visit my website www.samadas.talkspot.com
as I invited you to, if and when you do, you will see that you and I agree that America is not a saint and I crticize as much as I do Chavez and Skeritt and all others in my opinion deserve to be crticized for one reason or the other..
But this discussion in my opinion is not about America and Venezula, or about America and Dominica as you and others want to make, I refuse to pay attention to the smoke and mirrors.. This is about Dominica/Skeritt and Venezula and Chavez, no need to make it about America.
I do agree though that a historical perspective is appropriate in discussions such as these, but I do not agree with the idea of hiding one devil behind another devil, neither do I think that because one person or country is the devil another has to be to make a point. PS. At one point I was saying viva Chavez until I accessed the situation for myself, and if you can disprove anything that was written about Chavez especially muzzling the press, then I can rethink my position. I take muzzling the press very seriously.. The first step to dictatorship.
Shirley Allan
as I invited you to, if and when you do, you will see that you and I agree that America is not a saint and I crticize as much as I do Chavez and Skeritt and all others in my opinion deserve to be crticized for one reason or the other..
But this discussion in my opinion is not about America and Venezula, or about America and Dominica as you and others want to make, I refuse to pay attention to the smoke and mirrors.. This is about Dominica/Skeritt and Venezula and Chavez, no need to make it about America.
I do agree though that a historical perspective is appropriate in discussions such as these, but I do not agree with the idea of hiding one devil behind another devil, neither do I think that because one person or country is the devil another has to be to make a point. PS. At one point I was saying viva Chavez until I accessed the situation for myself, and if you can disprove anything that was written about Chavez especially muzzling the press, then I can rethink my position. I take muzzling the press very seriously.. The first step to dictatorship.
Shirley Allan
# posted by : October 31, 2009 11:16 AM
: October 31, 2009 11:16 AM
Now whoever posted the following with my name under it is taking it below the ground. You don't have to employ these unscrpulous tactics. Just be like me, despite the lynchings I say whatever I think or feel I need to say with my signature or my known aliases under it. I can take everything that is thrown at me, but I resent this low down tactics. Very distasteful if you ask me.
------------------------------------------------
"I am having a meltdown, what i wrote is totally wrong.
Shirley Allan
# posted by Anonymous : October 31, 2009 9:59 AM
------------------------------------------------
"I am having a meltdown, what i wrote is totally wrong.
Shirley Allan
# posted by Anonymous : October 31, 2009 9:59 AM
# posted by : October 31, 2009 11:43 AM
: October 31, 2009 11:43 AM
# posted by Anonymous: October 31, 2009 10:22 ...continuation at AM Anonymous : October 31, 2009 10:22 AM:
Your point that the US is just as BAD an actor as Chavez of Venezuela is ACCEPTED. No disagreement here; Your point on Navassa Island is NOT in dispute; Your point on "USSR was dismantled and the Berlin Wall fell, the president of USSR was labeled a monster .... then a good guy is ACCEPTED.
We all know of this East West divide, the US attitude of "Do as I Say, Not What I Do" - this is old news. Can we move on to the geo-political issues pertinent to Dominica, OECS & Caricom countries vs the rest of the (Venezuela, USA, etc) World.
The Issue is NOT the USA or its' policies.
THE ISSUE is current day Venezuelan policy - its claim to Bird rock and its ongoing efforts to make it a habitable island under International Law so as to create an EEZ 200 miles from the Bird Island coast (instead of 200 miles from the Venezuelan coast) for the DOMINATION OF THE CARIBBEAN SEA to the Detriment of the OECS countries - - - AND the fact that the relationship with Skerrit & Dominica may exist to smooth the way to help Accomplish this wider goal?
Can you address this issue with your usual eloquence?
Peace, Thank you
Your point that the US is just as BAD an actor as Chavez of Venezuela is ACCEPTED. No disagreement here; Your point on Navassa Island is NOT in dispute; Your point on "USSR was dismantled and the Berlin Wall fell, the president of USSR was labeled a monster .... then a good guy is ACCEPTED.
We all know of this East West divide, the US attitude of "Do as I Say, Not What I Do" - this is old news. Can we move on to the geo-political issues pertinent to Dominica, OECS & Caricom countries vs the rest of the (Venezuela, USA, etc) World.
The Issue is NOT the USA or its' policies.
THE ISSUE is current day Venezuelan policy - its claim to Bird rock and its ongoing efforts to make it a habitable island under International Law so as to create an EEZ 200 miles from the Bird Island coast (instead of 200 miles from the Venezuelan coast) for the DOMINATION OF THE CARIBBEAN SEA to the Detriment of the OECS countries - - - AND the fact that the relationship with Skerrit & Dominica may exist to smooth the way to help Accomplish this wider goal?
Can you address this issue with your usual eloquence?
Peace, Thank you
# posted by : October 31, 2009 11:45 AM
: October 31, 2009 11:45 AM
PS: I emailed the Editor a photograph of a three story building on Bird Island built by Chavez. I hope he can publish within the blog for your view.
Peace
Peace
# posted by : October 31, 2009 11:58 AM
: October 31, 2009 11:58 AM
I wrote my many previous contributions on this subject to make the point that we shouldn’t just point fingers at one country but all countries when they are committing the same acts. But I totally understand the point that both Shirley and Anonymous: October 31, 2009 11:45 AM are making. I even further support the idea that we should not allow any one country to have so much say about the Caribbean Sea unless that country is a United Caribbean Nation! I understand that and support it totally. However, what I still don't understand is how did we connect that assumed Caribbean Sea domination by Venezuela with Skerrit? Yes, it is true that Dominica and Venezuela do have a wonderful working arrangement but why should Dominica and its PM be blamed for or associated with ALL Venezuela's actions? Even though these two countries sometimes have common interest, they both are independent and make their own decisions on other world issues.
If the suggestion is one where the rest of the Caribbean including Dominica should bring the matter up to all the world high offices, then I am in agreement. But for us to suggest that Dominica is being cheated from ownership of Bird Island by Venezuela (when we all know that Dominica never had ownership of that island), then I am lost. As a matter of fact, this partially submerges reef (with some sand) is 115 miles southwest of Montserrat, 140 miles west of Dominica and 340 miles north of the Venezuelan mainland. In proximity, Montserrat has first claim to it and not Dominica or Venezuela.
I am Dominican and sometimes do wish that my land or birth was made up of more than one island but unfortunately that is not so. Dominica has no right to lay claim to that island. Dominica’s only quarrel could be as a member of a Caribbean group trying to stop any other country (including Venezuela) from dominating the Caribbean Sea by occupying Isla Aves/Bird Island.
If the suggestion is one where the rest of the Caribbean including Dominica should bring the matter up to all the world high offices, then I am in agreement. But for us to suggest that Dominica is being cheated from ownership of Bird Island by Venezuela (when we all know that Dominica never had ownership of that island), then I am lost. As a matter of fact, this partially submerges reef (with some sand) is 115 miles southwest of Montserrat, 140 miles west of Dominica and 340 miles north of the Venezuelan mainland. In proximity, Montserrat has first claim to it and not Dominica or Venezuela.
I am Dominican and sometimes do wish that my land or birth was made up of more than one island but unfortunately that is not so. Dominica has no right to lay claim to that island. Dominica’s only quarrel could be as a member of a Caribbean group trying to stop any other country (including Venezuela) from dominating the Caribbean Sea by occupying Isla Aves/Bird Island.
# posted by : October 31, 2009 12:44 PM
: October 31, 2009 12:44 PM
Anonymous: October 31, 2009 11:58 AM
In my post above (October 31, 2009 12:44 PM), I expressed my agreement with the points you were making about not allowing one country alone to dominate the Caribbean Sea. The case you made (and the one that Jason Richards tried to make) about Venezuela’s actions of extending their Economic space by claiming Aves Island/Rock/Reef is valid if we take Richards’ anti-Skeritt slant away from the article. Politicizing it didn’t help!
Indeed, there is a genuine problem created if Venezuela or any other country moves to claim so much of the Caribbean Sea. Thus, it is of great importance for Dominica together with either the OECS or CARICOM addresses this problem at the highest world level. But there stands a major issue in addressing this problem. The USA and France have both already recognized Venezuela’s claim to this Island/Rock/Reef. Both the USA and France have veto rights at the UN and strong say at all the high world offices where we would need to address this problem.
White man from USA, you see how we in the Caribbean are constantly being screwed! And by the way, I must point out that the USA did eye this island under their greedy Guano Act and actually did physically extract materials from this island. Anyway Anonymous: October 31, 2009 11:58 AM, I think the picture you wanted to show us about that 3-story building built by the Venezuelans on Aves/Bird Island can be seen on the following website:
http://notesfromthemargin.wordpress.com/2007/07/21/details-on-aves-island-how-venezuela-controls-the-caribbean-sea/.
In my post above (October 31, 2009 12:44 PM), I expressed my agreement with the points you were making about not allowing one country alone to dominate the Caribbean Sea. The case you made (and the one that Jason Richards tried to make) about Venezuela’s actions of extending their Economic space by claiming Aves Island/Rock/Reef is valid if we take Richards’ anti-Skeritt slant away from the article. Politicizing it didn’t help!
Indeed, there is a genuine problem created if Venezuela or any other country moves to claim so much of the Caribbean Sea. Thus, it is of great importance for Dominica together with either the OECS or CARICOM addresses this problem at the highest world level. But there stands a major issue in addressing this problem. The USA and France have both already recognized Venezuela’s claim to this Island/Rock/Reef. Both the USA and France have veto rights at the UN and strong say at all the high world offices where we would need to address this problem.
White man from USA, you see how we in the Caribbean are constantly being screwed! And by the way, I must point out that the USA did eye this island under their greedy Guano Act and actually did physically extract materials from this island. Anyway Anonymous: October 31, 2009 11:58 AM, I think the picture you wanted to show us about that 3-story building built by the Venezuelans on Aves/Bird Island can be seen on the following website:
http://notesfromthemargin.wordpress.com/2007/07/21/details-on-aves-island-how-venezuela-controls-the-caribbean-sea/.
# posted by : November 1, 2009 9:31 AM
: November 1, 2009 9:31 AM
Anonymous : November 1, 2009 9:31 AM if you would disclose who you are, it would give your argument a little more cedibility! No dobut you seem to be very well versed on the geography and the history, indeed you seem to be very informed enough to give us the impression that you have an agenda. Could you please disclose your identity? It helps in making a total and indepth analysis of all the information you are providing. Like the consider the source element of it. That's important.
# posted by : November 1, 2009 10:03 AM
: November 1, 2009 10:03 AM
# posted by Anonymous: November 1, 2009 10:03 AM:
You requested that # posted by Anonymous : November 1, 2009 9:31 AM REVEAL his/her identity. My advise is NO. Revealing identities only seem to PERSONALIZE and result in personal attacks.
In other blogs I used my real name - I was systematically attacked for my scholarship. In this current blog I have used my real name but then decided to used Why????? and Peace - when I decided to put forth my own thesis as to the Venezuelan largest to Dominica.
Anonymous : November 1, 2009 9:31 AM: I respect your response - I am drafting my response to your valuable contribution.
Peace
You requested that # posted by Anonymous : November 1, 2009 9:31 AM REVEAL his/her identity. My advise is NO. Revealing identities only seem to PERSONALIZE and result in personal attacks.
In other blogs I used my real name - I was systematically attacked for my scholarship. In this current blog I have used my real name but then decided to used Why????? and Peace - when I decided to put forth my own thesis as to the Venezuelan largest to Dominica.
Anonymous : November 1, 2009 9:31 AM: I respect your response - I am drafting my response to your valuable contribution.
Peace
# posted by : November 1, 2009 11:57 AM
: November 1, 2009 11:57 AM
Major difference between Chavez and Nasser (nationalized Suez Canal from Brits
and french in early 60's or so) is Nasser and leaders following him reinbursed
investors properly. Chavez does not and when all the court cases are done the
government will have to pay vast sums of money. I think it is perfectly alright
to appropriate businesses but you do have the legal and moral right to give
appropriate compensation. Saying it is OK to screw people because of what happened
in the past is a very slippery slope morally. Things also change I think the
USA led negotiations to restore the leftist leader in Hondoras is an example of
USA change. That WOULD NOT have happen under Bush. Yes past behavior of the US
government towards the islands has not been in the best interests of the people
but where do we take it from here? How can we maintain the positive points of the
relationship without the negative points and the same could be said of Chavez and
relations with his country. Chavez had done good things for Dominica and I hope
he does more but if the price is Bird island and Venezualan domination of the
south Carib. sea I just don't know.
and french in early 60's or so) is Nasser and leaders following him reinbursed
investors properly. Chavez does not and when all the court cases are done the
government will have to pay vast sums of money. I think it is perfectly alright
to appropriate businesses but you do have the legal and moral right to give
appropriate compensation. Saying it is OK to screw people because of what happened
in the past is a very slippery slope morally. Things also change I think the
USA led negotiations to restore the leftist leader in Hondoras is an example of
USA change. That WOULD NOT have happen under Bush. Yes past behavior of the US
government towards the islands has not been in the best interests of the people
but where do we take it from here? How can we maintain the positive points of the
relationship without the negative points and the same could be said of Chavez and
relations with his country. Chavez had done good things for Dominica and I hope
he does more but if the price is Bird island and Venezualan domination of the
south Carib. sea I just don't know.
# posted by : November 1, 2009 12:35 PM
: November 1, 2009 12:35 PM
Jason Richards’ propositioned and he advanced as an argument is what have been the true costs and benefits of the friendship” between Chavez and Skerrit?
His conclusion is that “political observers see a more sinister reason for Venezuela’s cozy relationship with Skerrit - Bird Island. A small island located well within the territorial boundary of Dominica, some 90 miles off Dominica’s north western coast and 350 miles north of the Venezuelan coast, Bird Island have been claimed by Venezuela who are using it as a naval base.
Just when Dominica’ s claim to the island was growing more loudly with support from the Caribbean Community (CARICOM) to help it pursue the issue, Chavez’s largesse towards the country began. Now, few in Dominica expect their leader to contest Venezuela’s claim.”
OK.
Other contributors (the D/can intellectuals that some say (Ms. Allan or the Judge Nicholas) are apologist for Skerrit b/c they support when its’ deserved) said maybe not; they expanded the thesis to say it was not claim to Aves / Bird rock but the transformation of the rift, sand rock into a habitable island – by the transportation of tons of stone from Venezuela to Bird Island and the building of structures.
The issue of ownership of Bird / Aves rock was settled as suggested earlier by the petulant child Queen Isabella II in a vaguely reasoned decision when the imperialist Queen awarded Bird Island to her former colony Venezuela – then an imperial arm of the colonial power the rights to Bird Island.
This issue in NOT about being anti Skeritt. Although born a Freedomite, I rather like the PM. An indeed Ms. Shirley Alcid the Economist is correct in fact that Dominica never owned or had any claim to Bird Island. BrianL ideas are worthy of debate BUT as noted by Anonymous: October 28, 2009 12:45 am, BIRD ISLAND is not the prize.
The Prize is the Caribbean Sea.
Noted earlier that according to the United Nations, at one time or the other, Dominica, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Antigua & Barbuda, Saint Lucia, Grenada, and Saint Vincent and the Grenadines all member countries of OECS protest Venezuela's full effect of the EEZ claim BASED on Bird Island being a habitable island under International Law of the Sea.
The island with the strongest potential claim to block Venezuela’s claim is Dominica because of its fishermen historical use and geographic proximity of Bird Island 90 miles of its northwest coast. Some experts of the International Law of the Sea Convention think it (Venezuela did not sign the Convention) strengthens a potential D/ca claim; BUT the main concern for Venezuela is the mechanism of how an EEZ continental shelf claim is made.
The interpretation by most international law scholars, think Venezuela CANNOT claim an EEZ from the Coast of Bird Island, BUT from it s MAIN LAND Coast. Thus 200 miles from Caracas is their EEZ zone. NOT 200 miles from Bird Island which is 350 miles from Caracas.
Proposition: Maybe Petro Carib to Caricom, and Alba to Dominica, now St. Vincent and Antigua as well as the great friendship with Skeritt is to prevent these island from pressing their OBJECTIONS to Venezuela domination the Caribbean Sea through an extended EEZ CLAIM based on Bird Island being a capable of sustaining human life.
Without these OBJECTION of those most closely affected will allow Venezuela's EEZ claim to be substantiated thus its 550 mile EEZ zone DOMINATING the Caribbean Sea to the detriment of all the independent islands.
This is not politics; this is Dominica, OECS an Caricom Nationalism against EXPANSIONIST goals of Venezuela.
Peace
His conclusion is that “political observers see a more sinister reason for Venezuela’s cozy relationship with Skerrit - Bird Island. A small island located well within the territorial boundary of Dominica, some 90 miles off Dominica’s north western coast and 350 miles north of the Venezuelan coast, Bird Island have been claimed by Venezuela who are using it as a naval base.
Just when Dominica’ s claim to the island was growing more loudly with support from the Caribbean Community (CARICOM) to help it pursue the issue, Chavez’s largesse towards the country began. Now, few in Dominica expect their leader to contest Venezuela’s claim.”
OK.
Other contributors (the D/can intellectuals that some say (Ms. Allan or the Judge Nicholas) are apologist for Skerrit b/c they support when its’ deserved) said maybe not; they expanded the thesis to say it was not claim to Aves / Bird rock but the transformation of the rift, sand rock into a habitable island – by the transportation of tons of stone from Venezuela to Bird Island and the building of structures.
The issue of ownership of Bird / Aves rock was settled as suggested earlier by the petulant child Queen Isabella II in a vaguely reasoned decision when the imperialist Queen awarded Bird Island to her former colony Venezuela – then an imperial arm of the colonial power the rights to Bird Island.
This issue in NOT about being anti Skeritt. Although born a Freedomite, I rather like the PM. An indeed Ms. Shirley Alcid the Economist is correct in fact that Dominica never owned or had any claim to Bird Island. BrianL ideas are worthy of debate BUT as noted by Anonymous: October 28, 2009 12:45 am, BIRD ISLAND is not the prize.
The Prize is the Caribbean Sea.
Noted earlier that according to the United Nations, at one time or the other, Dominica, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Antigua & Barbuda, Saint Lucia, Grenada, and Saint Vincent and the Grenadines all member countries of OECS protest Venezuela's full effect of the EEZ claim BASED on Bird Island being a habitable island under International Law of the Sea.
The island with the strongest potential claim to block Venezuela’s claim is Dominica because of its fishermen historical use and geographic proximity of Bird Island 90 miles of its northwest coast. Some experts of the International Law of the Sea Convention think it (Venezuela did not sign the Convention) strengthens a potential D/ca claim; BUT the main concern for Venezuela is the mechanism of how an EEZ continental shelf claim is made.
The interpretation by most international law scholars, think Venezuela CANNOT claim an EEZ from the Coast of Bird Island, BUT from it s MAIN LAND Coast. Thus 200 miles from Caracas is their EEZ zone. NOT 200 miles from Bird Island which is 350 miles from Caracas.
Proposition: Maybe Petro Carib to Caricom, and Alba to Dominica, now St. Vincent and Antigua as well as the great friendship with Skeritt is to prevent these island from pressing their OBJECTIONS to Venezuela domination the Caribbean Sea through an extended EEZ CLAIM based on Bird Island being a capable of sustaining human life.
Without these OBJECTION of those most closely affected will allow Venezuela's EEZ claim to be substantiated thus its 550 mile EEZ zone DOMINATING the Caribbean Sea to the detriment of all the independent islands.
This is not politics; this is Dominica, OECS an Caricom Nationalism against EXPANSIONIST goals of Venezuela.
Peace
# posted by : November 1, 2009 1:28 PM
: November 1, 2009 1:28 PM
Anonymous: November 1, 2009 10:03 AM,
Your call for my real identity is rather flattering if nor entertaining! Certainly, if you wanted my identity you would not have hidden yours. Without exposing myself to victimization by all parties concern, I am only going to tell you the following: I am a Dominican with Dominica at heart, am presently in my thirties, and am not partisan. That’s all you are going to get.
Most documents that I have read (including online sources such as wikipedia) tells me that Aves/Bird Island is 115 miles southwest of Montserrat, 140 miles west of Dominica and 340 miles north of the Venezuelan mainland. I also understood that tthroughout the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries, the inhabitants of the Dutch islands St. Eustatius and Saba regularly visited Aves to collect turtle and bird eggs. Fishermen from Dominica sporadically visited the island as well as the islands of the Saints on their turtle hunts but never did Dominica own any of them. The History books further informed me that the island was most likely discovered by Avaro Sanzze in 1584, though it was not settled. It was subsequently claimed for Great Britain, Spain, Portugal and the Netherlands…but never for Dominica. Further, I have yet to lay my eye on any document that shows where Dominica has officially received or announce legal control of the island in question.
Venezuela may have some Caribbean Sea domination plan at hand but they are certainly not cheating Dominica from possession of any island.
Your call for my real identity is rather flattering if nor entertaining! Certainly, if you wanted my identity you would not have hidden yours. Without exposing myself to victimization by all parties concern, I am only going to tell you the following: I am a Dominican with Dominica at heart, am presently in my thirties, and am not partisan. That’s all you are going to get.
Most documents that I have read (including online sources such as wikipedia) tells me that Aves/Bird Island is 115 miles southwest of Montserrat, 140 miles west of Dominica and 340 miles north of the Venezuelan mainland. I also understood that tthroughout the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries, the inhabitants of the Dutch islands St. Eustatius and Saba regularly visited Aves to collect turtle and bird eggs. Fishermen from Dominica sporadically visited the island as well as the islands of the Saints on their turtle hunts but never did Dominica own any of them. The History books further informed me that the island was most likely discovered by Avaro Sanzze in 1584, though it was not settled. It was subsequently claimed for Great Britain, Spain, Portugal and the Netherlands…but never for Dominica. Further, I have yet to lay my eye on any document that shows where Dominica has officially received or announce legal control of the island in question.
Venezuela may have some Caribbean Sea domination plan at hand but they are certainly not cheating Dominica from possession of any island.
# posted by : November 1, 2009 3:20 PM
: November 1, 2009 3:20 PM
Anonymous : November 1, 2009 3:20 PM: You state: "The History books further informed me that the island was most likely discovered by Avaro Sanzze in 1584, though it was not settled.'
"It was subsequently claimed for Great Britain" ... and Great Britain was the colonial master of Dominica at the time ... what you ignored was the Great Britain Claim was administered from the governor's house in Dominica.
Thus in 1978 - as Rosie Dougals claimed Dominica not only became independent - Dominica also inherited the Great British original claim to Bird Island.
Dominican folk who fished over the centuries utilized Bird Island daily, and the underwater ridge which runs 90 miles from Dominica to Bird Island is a physical geographical connection - these are all part of Dominica's potential right to ownership of Bird Island.
Just a thought.
Kibosh
"It was subsequently claimed for Great Britain" ... and Great Britain was the colonial master of Dominica at the time ... what you ignored was the Great Britain Claim was administered from the governor's house in Dominica.
Thus in 1978 - as Rosie Dougals claimed Dominica not only became independent - Dominica also inherited the Great British original claim to Bird Island.
Dominican folk who fished over the centuries utilized Bird Island daily, and the underwater ridge which runs 90 miles from Dominica to Bird Island is a physical geographical connection - these are all part of Dominica's potential right to ownership of Bird Island.
Just a thought.
Kibosh
# posted by : November 1, 2009 3:35 PM
: November 1, 2009 3:35 PM
Re-printed and posted from:
http://notesfromthemargin.wordpress.com/2007/07/21/details-on-aves-island-how-venezuela-controls-the-caribbean-sea/
The Caribbean is helping to set the hook deeper and deeper with the madness of the PetroCaribe agreement, Alba & Chavez's friendship. The part of this that concerns me is Venezuela’s claim on Bird Rock. Bird Rock (or Isla de Aves if you are Venezuelan) is positioned on the map at 15°40′18″N, 63°36′59″W. some 70 miles to the west of Dominica (340 miles north of Venezuela). The Venezuelan’s call it an island, the UN Law of the Sea Convention considers it to be a “Rock”. The peak of the land mass is 4meters above sea level on a day with calm seas.
What makes this otherwise nondescript navigational hazard so controversial is because of its location. The country that owns this little piece of rock also own a good chunk of the Caribbean Sea, and the sea floor under it, and for good measure everything under the sea floor (oil, gas …whatever else may be there). A total area of more than 150,000 square kilometers is claimed by this piece of rock and sand barely a kilometer long and 400 meters wide (actually at times it becomes two smaller islands because the sea divides it into two) .
Bird Rock
Venezuela has gone to great expense to establish a naval base on the island (on stilts so it doesn’t get submerged), and also it is alleged to have brought in pregnant women so that Aves Island natives can be born there, all to support the claim that it is an island rather than a rock and a Venezuelan island to be precise.
There are only two things that stand in the way of this claim.
The first is that the rock/island/sandbar/landmass is actually closest to Dominica. who could easily mount a claim based on proximity. The possibility of the Dominicans actually mounting such a claim has now been considerably reduced as they are now dependant on Venezuela for their petroleum supplies through Petro Caribe.
Ironically the other thing that might foil our Venezuelan friends is that the island is slowly eroding and has been split into two islands by a hurricane, and could possibly disappear altogether. Venezuela has gone so far as to consider building artificial reefs to protect the “island” Locations shown in the graphic below.
Now Aves Rock (or Island). This island is about 2 meters above sea level at it’s highest point, and is at times completely submerged. However Venezuela has gone to great lengths to make sure that the island is continually inhabited (In a facility built on stilts). We’ll get into the details of why in a minute.
Under the International Law Of The Sea Aves Island is classified as a rock which does not get the 200mile economic zone, however Venezuela hasn’t signed the UNLOS treaty. This rock effectively removes a significantly removes most of the OECS’ economic zone. The irony is that if Venezuela finds oil in those waters, they’ll sell it to the OECS on REALLY EASY finance terms under Petro Caribe (but at full cost of course!)
So once again…., What does Mr. Chavez get out of Petro Caribe?
Marginal
http://notesfromthemargin.wordpress.com/2007/07/21/details-on-aves-island-how-venezuela-controls-the-caribbean-sea/
The Caribbean is helping to set the hook deeper and deeper with the madness of the PetroCaribe agreement, Alba & Chavez's friendship. The part of this that concerns me is Venezuela’s claim on Bird Rock. Bird Rock (or Isla de Aves if you are Venezuelan) is positioned on the map at 15°40′18″N, 63°36′59″W. some 70 miles to the west of Dominica (340 miles north of Venezuela). The Venezuelan’s call it an island, the UN Law of the Sea Convention considers it to be a “Rock”. The peak of the land mass is 4meters above sea level on a day with calm seas.
What makes this otherwise nondescript navigational hazard so controversial is because of its location. The country that owns this little piece of rock also own a good chunk of the Caribbean Sea, and the sea floor under it, and for good measure everything under the sea floor (oil, gas …whatever else may be there). A total area of more than 150,000 square kilometers is claimed by this piece of rock and sand barely a kilometer long and 400 meters wide (actually at times it becomes two smaller islands because the sea divides it into two) .
Bird Rock
Venezuela has gone to great expense to establish a naval base on the island (on stilts so it doesn’t get submerged), and also it is alleged to have brought in pregnant women so that Aves Island natives can be born there, all to support the claim that it is an island rather than a rock and a Venezuelan island to be precise.
There are only two things that stand in the way of this claim.
The first is that the rock/island/sandbar/landmass is actually closest to Dominica. who could easily mount a claim based on proximity. The possibility of the Dominicans actually mounting such a claim has now been considerably reduced as they are now dependant on Venezuela for their petroleum supplies through Petro Caribe.
Ironically the other thing that might foil our Venezuelan friends is that the island is slowly eroding and has been split into two islands by a hurricane, and could possibly disappear altogether. Venezuela has gone so far as to consider building artificial reefs to protect the “island” Locations shown in the graphic below.
Now Aves Rock (or Island). This island is about 2 meters above sea level at it’s highest point, and is at times completely submerged. However Venezuela has gone to great lengths to make sure that the island is continually inhabited (In a facility built on stilts). We’ll get into the details of why in a minute.
Under the International Law Of The Sea Aves Island is classified as a rock which does not get the 200mile economic zone, however Venezuela hasn’t signed the UNLOS treaty. This rock effectively removes a significantly removes most of the OECS’ economic zone. The irony is that if Venezuela finds oil in those waters, they’ll sell it to the OECS on REALLY EASY finance terms under Petro Caribe (but at full cost of course!)
So once again…., What does Mr. Chavez get out of Petro Caribe?
Marginal
# posted by : November 1, 2009 4:05 PM
: November 1, 2009 4:05 PM
Anonymous : November 1, 2009 3:20 PM... You got yourself a deal.. As soon as you reveal yours. I will reveal mine. This was calculted. It was deliberate I was hoping that you would give me the exact answer that you did! You have my word reveal your indentity give me some time to authenticate it and I will reveal mine.
Where you see irony I see something akin to genius. Honestly if someone is making such a compelling case, and is so passonate abot it,that person in my mind should have no problem in disclosing who he/she is and what his/her interest in the issue is. Say what you want about Shirley Allan, but one thing I admire her for is despite the vicious onslaught on her she signs her name. She is a woman with guts, the others you included they hide behind the dark curtains. Don't tell me you can't take a little bit of mapious from Dominicans and still stand up for your principles and what you believe in or what you know to be the facts.
Full disclosure?
Where you see irony I see something akin to genius. Honestly if someone is making such a compelling case, and is so passonate abot it,that person in my mind should have no problem in disclosing who he/she is and what his/her interest in the issue is. Say what you want about Shirley Allan, but one thing I admire her for is despite the vicious onslaught on her she signs her name. She is a woman with guts, the others you included they hide behind the dark curtains. Don't tell me you can't take a little bit of mapious from Dominicans and still stand up for your principles and what you believe in or what you know to be the facts.
Full disclosure?
# posted by : November 1, 2009 4:20 PM
: November 1, 2009 4:20 PM
Full disclosure?
# posted by Anonymous Anonymous : November 1, 2009 4:20 PM
You are FULL OF IT! Reveal your name - Your promise or your "word to reveal your identity give me some time to authenticate it and I will reveal mine" is CRAP!
But then Anonymous : November 1, 2009 3:20 PM can answer for her/himself.
But "Full disclosure" @ Anonymous : November 1, 2009 4:20 PM - why don't you go first?
Give us your name
Peace.
# posted by Anonymous Anonymous : November 1, 2009 4:20 PM
You are FULL OF IT! Reveal your name - Your promise or your "word to reveal your identity give me some time to authenticate it and I will reveal mine" is CRAP!
But then Anonymous : November 1, 2009 3:20 PM can answer for her/himself.
But "Full disclosure" @ Anonymous : November 1, 2009 4:20 PM - why don't you go first?
Give us your name
Peace.
# posted by : November 1, 2009 5:33 PM
: November 1, 2009 5:33 PM
Settle down folks.. Let's go back a bit. Ok! I was the one who asked first, then whoever it was said he/she could not because he/she fearde that he/she will be attacked by his follow Dominicans which I thought was not fair because os he/shes persistence in attempting to influnece his audience with his point of view and his /her historical and geographical data. It would fair for the reading public to at least know who is talking..
Full disclosure?
Full disclosure?
# posted by : November 1, 2009 5:56 PM
: November 1, 2009 5:56 PM
Full disclosure? @ Anonymous : November 1, 2009 5:56 PM: That is pure Nonsense.
You want the persons name so you can avoid the REAL issues and give a "little bit of mapious"
Grow up.
Disclosed!
You want the persons name so you can avoid the REAL issues and give a "little bit of mapious"
Grow up.
Disclosed!
# posted by : November 1, 2009 7:14 PM
: November 1, 2009 7:14 PM
Ha ha ha...I told you all I could about myself. That's sufficient! I assuree you that I am telling the truth when I tell you that I am 100% Dominican with Dominica at heart, I am presently in my thirties, and I am not partisan. In addition, I need to add that I am not receiving a penny from neither Chavez’s nor Skeritt’s government nor any of their representatives.
That’s all you are going to get about me. Lets just talk the issues!
That’s all you are going to get about me. Lets just talk the issues!
# posted by : November 1, 2009 7:24 PM
: November 1, 2009 7:24 PM
Interesting! very interesting! Anonymous : November 1, 2009 7:24 PM I understand your position even if I find it pathetic!Now back to the issues, there are so many of them floating around which one exactly would you like us to go back to? Bird Islands? As I understand it you think that Chavez has a legitimate claim to that coveted piece of land, right? and you are basing your conslusions on wikipedia? In college they warn us, do not use wikipedia as a source because it is not peer reviewed, or credible, I wouldn't bank of that source, or anounce that my conclusions are based on that source.
coral-covered sandbank only 15 feet (4.5 metres) high at low tide, located in the Caribbean Sea about 350 miles (560 km) north of Venezuela and 70 miles (110 km) west of Dominica. (The island is not a part of the group of Venezuelan islands of similar name, Islas de Aves, comprising Aves de Barlovento and Aves de Sotavento, located 145 miles [230 km] north of Caracas, just east of Bonaire.) The uninhabited islet was valued in the past for its abundant guano (used as fertilizer) and was claimed or occupied by a number of powers (Spain, Venezuela, the United States, the Netherlands, Great Britain, and Dominica) after the arrival of Europeans in the West Indies.
The islet acquired political significance in the 1970s because of its strategic importance for the control of the Caribbean basin and became the subject of a tense dispute between Venezuela and Dominica. Dominica’s claim is based on geographical criteria, since the island rises from a long submarine sandbank, the Aves Ridge, which apparently connects it with Dominica. Venezuela’s claim stems from having maintained an armed force there and exercised acts of sovereignty by virtue of which it was awarded to Venezuela in 1865.
The controversy continued into the 21st century as Venezuela in 2001 made several moves to reaffirm its ownership of the islet, including announcing plans to expand the country’s small military base there. Such actions drew protests from other Caribbean states, who opposed the extension of Venezuela’s exclusive economic zone.
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/66504/Bird-Island
VENEZUELA is to press its case for recognition of its sovereignty over a tiny Caribbean island by sending a pregnant woman to give birth there.
Isla de Aves, or Bird Island, is a remote speck of land that is little more than a sandbank. It is 400 yards long and no more than 50 yards wide at its broadest point, with a maximum elevation of less than 6ft on a calm day.
But sovereignty of Bird Island brings with it control of fish stocks in neighbouring waters, as well as the right to exploit any undersea oil and gas reserves in an exclusive economic zone up to a maximum of 200 nautical miles, under the terms of the United Nations convention on the law of the sea.
The island lies 350 miles north of Venezuela but only 150 miles west of the former British colony of Dominica, which disputes a sovereignty claim by Hugo Chavez, the radical Venezuelan president.
Yelitza de Orellana, the wife of a soldier, is the mother-to-be. She was chosen for her reliability, having twice given birth on her due date.
Bird Island was discovered by the Spanish in 1584 and is a nesting site of the Atlantic green turtle. It is also a resting place for gulls but has never before been inhabited by humans.
Venezuela's navy has set up a small, pier-like structure on the white sand beach, purporting to be a military base, as well as a makeshift maternity ward.
The base has already been damaged by storms, the fiercest of which can cause the island to disappear under the waves.
Venezuela's territorial ambitions are not limited to Bird Island. It also claims about 70 per cent of neighbouring Guyana, another former British colony.
See more:
fpress@telegraph.co.uk
Full disclosure?
coral-covered sandbank only 15 feet (4.5 metres) high at low tide, located in the Caribbean Sea about 350 miles (560 km) north of Venezuela and 70 miles (110 km) west of Dominica. (The island is not a part of the group of Venezuelan islands of similar name, Islas de Aves, comprising Aves de Barlovento and Aves de Sotavento, located 145 miles [230 km] north of Caracas, just east of Bonaire.) The uninhabited islet was valued in the past for its abundant guano (used as fertilizer) and was claimed or occupied by a number of powers (Spain, Venezuela, the United States, the Netherlands, Great Britain, and Dominica) after the arrival of Europeans in the West Indies.
The islet acquired political significance in the 1970s because of its strategic importance for the control of the Caribbean basin and became the subject of a tense dispute between Venezuela and Dominica. Dominica’s claim is based on geographical criteria, since the island rises from a long submarine sandbank, the Aves Ridge, which apparently connects it with Dominica. Venezuela’s claim stems from having maintained an armed force there and exercised acts of sovereignty by virtue of which it was awarded to Venezuela in 1865.
The controversy continued into the 21st century as Venezuela in 2001 made several moves to reaffirm its ownership of the islet, including announcing plans to expand the country’s small military base there. Such actions drew protests from other Caribbean states, who opposed the extension of Venezuela’s exclusive economic zone.
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/66504/Bird-Island
VENEZUELA is to press its case for recognition of its sovereignty over a tiny Caribbean island by sending a pregnant woman to give birth there.
Isla de Aves, or Bird Island, is a remote speck of land that is little more than a sandbank. It is 400 yards long and no more than 50 yards wide at its broadest point, with a maximum elevation of less than 6ft on a calm day.
But sovereignty of Bird Island brings with it control of fish stocks in neighbouring waters, as well as the right to exploit any undersea oil and gas reserves in an exclusive economic zone up to a maximum of 200 nautical miles, under the terms of the United Nations convention on the law of the sea.
The island lies 350 miles north of Venezuela but only 150 miles west of the former British colony of Dominica, which disputes a sovereignty claim by Hugo Chavez, the radical Venezuelan president.
Yelitza de Orellana, the wife of a soldier, is the mother-to-be. She was chosen for her reliability, having twice given birth on her due date.
Bird Island was discovered by the Spanish in 1584 and is a nesting site of the Atlantic green turtle. It is also a resting place for gulls but has never before been inhabited by humans.
Venezuela's navy has set up a small, pier-like structure on the white sand beach, purporting to be a military base, as well as a makeshift maternity ward.
The base has already been damaged by storms, the fiercest of which can cause the island to disappear under the waves.
Venezuela's territorial ambitions are not limited to Bird Island. It also claims about 70 per cent of neighbouring Guyana, another former British colony.
See more:
fpress@telegraph.co.uk
Full disclosure?
# posted by : November 1, 2009 8:12 PM
: November 1, 2009 8:12 PM
Full disclosure of November 1, 2009 8:12 PM,
What are you talking about? What is pathetic about me not wanting to broadcast my identity although I assured you that I am Dominican but not partisan, nor am I receiving a penny from neither Chavez’s nor Skeritt’s government nor any of their representatives? I mentioned all of this to establish that I am just expressing my personal thoughts on the subject base on the information I have and how I understand them. Life is not always complicated!! I personally think that the issue is not about the messenger but more about the message. Further, did you read any of my previous post? From which one of my many contributions did you deduce that I think that Chavez has a legitimate claim to Bird Island? As a matter of fact I did say blatantly many times that there is a genuine problem created if Venezuela or any other country moves to claim so much of the Caribbean Sea by using Bird Island. I further said that Venezuela may have some Caribbean Sea domination plan at hand but they are certainly not cheating Dominica from possession of any island because Dominica NEVER own that island. Please don’t mis-quote me!
Further, I never said that I based my information solely on wikipedia but instead stated that I used several sources which wikipedia was one of them. Again read before you jump to conclusions! And like you, I was also cautioned by my many professors and academic coworkers that even so-called credible peer reviewed materials are tainted! If we all have a slant it doesn’t matter how many of us review the material it will still be slanted!!! Anyway, what is your point?
As you so right fully said, “The [Bird] island lies [about] 350 miles north of Venezuela but only [about] 150 miles west of the former British colony of Dominica”. But what you failed to mentioned is that it also lies about 115 miles southwest of Montserrat. I mentioned all that info in my post of October 31, 2009 12:44 PM. Again please just read before you jump to conclusions. Further, I supported BrianL’s earlier contribution 100% which spoke about some of the boarder conflicts that exist in the Caribbean especially with Venezuela and some of its neighbors…and his suggestions on how to solve these problems through a United Caribbean Nation. Again, what is your point?
I do appreciate your input on this topic but apparently you wrote this last post without reading the entire page of reader’s feedbacks from beginning. Now, do you understand why I felt it was not necessary to post my name with my contributions? Can you imagine how personal your rebuttal would have been if you knew who I was?
What are you talking about? What is pathetic about me not wanting to broadcast my identity although I assured you that I am Dominican but not partisan, nor am I receiving a penny from neither Chavez’s nor Skeritt’s government nor any of their representatives? I mentioned all of this to establish that I am just expressing my personal thoughts on the subject base on the information I have and how I understand them. Life is not always complicated!! I personally think that the issue is not about the messenger but more about the message. Further, did you read any of my previous post? From which one of my many contributions did you deduce that I think that Chavez has a legitimate claim to Bird Island? As a matter of fact I did say blatantly many times that there is a genuine problem created if Venezuela or any other country moves to claim so much of the Caribbean Sea by using Bird Island. I further said that Venezuela may have some Caribbean Sea domination plan at hand but they are certainly not cheating Dominica from possession of any island because Dominica NEVER own that island. Please don’t mis-quote me!
Further, I never said that I based my information solely on wikipedia but instead stated that I used several sources which wikipedia was one of them. Again read before you jump to conclusions! And like you, I was also cautioned by my many professors and academic coworkers that even so-called credible peer reviewed materials are tainted! If we all have a slant it doesn’t matter how many of us review the material it will still be slanted!!! Anyway, what is your point?
As you so right fully said, “The [Bird] island lies [about] 350 miles north of Venezuela but only [about] 150 miles west of the former British colony of Dominica”. But what you failed to mentioned is that it also lies about 115 miles southwest of Montserrat. I mentioned all that info in my post of October 31, 2009 12:44 PM. Again please just read before you jump to conclusions. Further, I supported BrianL’s earlier contribution 100% which spoke about some of the boarder conflicts that exist in the Caribbean especially with Venezuela and some of its neighbors…and his suggestions on how to solve these problems through a United Caribbean Nation. Again, what is your point?
I do appreciate your input on this topic but apparently you wrote this last post without reading the entire page of reader’s feedbacks from beginning. Now, do you understand why I felt it was not necessary to post my name with my contributions? Can you imagine how personal your rebuttal would have been if you knew who I was?
# posted by : November 2, 2009 12:07 AM
: November 2, 2009 12:07 AM
November 2, 2009 12:07 my dictionary- http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pathetic tells me that the meaning of pathetic is:
1. Having a capacity to move one to either compassionate or contemptuous pity
2. marked by sorrow or melancholy: sad
3. Pitifully inferior or inadequate
4. Absurd, laughable , a pathetic costume
So what if say I find your decision not to reveal your name is pathetic and don't how that is giving you mapuis... But obviously we all perceive thing differently! Agreed?
You said this, but you did not say that France or the USA with their veto rights recognized Montserrat as the legitimate owner.
"If the suggestion is one where the rest of the Caribbean including Dominica should bring the matter up to all the world high offices, then I am in agreement. But for us to suggest that Dominica is being cheated from ownership of Bird Island by Venezuela (when we all know that Dominica never had ownership of that island), then I am lost. As a matter of fact, this partially submerges reef (with some sand) is 115 miles southwest of Montserrat, 140 miles west of Dominica and 340 miles north of the Venezuelan mainland. In proximity, Montserrat has first claim to it and not Dominica or Venezuela.
You asserted the following:
"The USA and France have both already recognized Venezuela’s claim to this Island/Rock/Reef. Both the USA and France have veto rights at the UN and strong say at all the high world offices where we would need to address this problem."
What I gather from that is that you conceding that Venezuela’s claim are legitimate and Dominica has no rights to Bird Island, since according to you there are no documents proving that Dominica ever had ownership of this land. I don't know on what basis you wrote what you just wrote, but no matter how you design it or wrap it up, or make it politically correct. This is the bottom line.
Full Disclosure?
1. Having a capacity to move one to either compassionate or contemptuous pity
2. marked by sorrow or melancholy: sad
3. Pitifully inferior or inadequate
4. Absurd, laughable , a pathetic costume
So what if say I find your decision not to reveal your name is pathetic and don't how that is giving you mapuis... But obviously we all perceive thing differently! Agreed?
You said this, but you did not say that France or the USA with their veto rights recognized Montserrat as the legitimate owner.
"If the suggestion is one where the rest of the Caribbean including Dominica should bring the matter up to all the world high offices, then I am in agreement. But for us to suggest that Dominica is being cheated from ownership of Bird Island by Venezuela (when we all know that Dominica never had ownership of that island), then I am lost. As a matter of fact, this partially submerges reef (with some sand) is 115 miles southwest of Montserrat, 140 miles west of Dominica and 340 miles north of the Venezuelan mainland. In proximity, Montserrat has first claim to it and not Dominica or Venezuela.
You asserted the following:
"The USA and France have both already recognized Venezuela’s claim to this Island/Rock/Reef. Both the USA and France have veto rights at the UN and strong say at all the high world offices where we would need to address this problem."
What I gather from that is that you conceding that Venezuela’s claim are legitimate and Dominica has no rights to Bird Island, since according to you there are no documents proving that Dominica ever had ownership of this land. I don't know on what basis you wrote what you just wrote, but no matter how you design it or wrap it up, or make it politically correct. This is the bottom line.
Full Disclosure?
# posted by : November 2, 2009 9:12 AM
: November 2, 2009 9:12 AM
Full Disclosure
It is a fact that the USA has established boundaries with Venezuela and their territory Puerto Rico, using Bird Island as Venezuela’s reference line. France did the same to establish boundaries with their territories of Guadeloupe and Martinique. However, neither France nor the USA used Bird Island as the reference line when establishing their boundary with Dominica and these territories!
It is also a fact that Venezuela has a known tangible claim from the Queen of Spain back when the decision was being made to the ownership of Bird Island. This proclamation was accepted worldwide at the time it was made by all and sundry. Although many presently query the validity of such an ownership but the facts of it are clear. In addition, the facts are clear that Dominica has never had any official paper or recognized claim to Bird Island. Dominica’s only point used to justify why Bird Island should belong to her is how close it is to the Dominican mainland as opposed to Venezuela’s. However, if the ownership of Bird Island has to be settled by how close it is to a country’s mainland, then as I stated before, Montserrat should have first options as it is the closest mainland to Bird Island! I also pointed out that if Dominica tries through the United Nations or any other world body to gain ownership of Bird Island it might be difficult. And as I pointed out earlier, I think it will be difficult for Dominica because both France and the USA (who already openly recognizes Venezuela’s reference line to be Bird Island) have veto rights at the UN and powerful voices at all world bodies. For them to back Dominica in such a fight they would have to renounce their boundaries previously established with Venezuela and explain why they think that Dominica should have ownership of Bird Island as opposed to their previous agreed assumption.
Full Disclosure, I am simply stating the facts as I see them and expressing my own opinion base on those facts. Further, in support of my country, Dominica, I suggested and I am in full agreement with the idea for Dominica and the rest of the Caribbean islands to bring up a case to the highest level showing that if Venezuela monopolize on their age old claim to Birds Island they could control the Caribbean Sea. They could formulate actual reasons why that would have a negative effect on many of the island nations and could even suggest that Bird Island should remains a no-man-land national reserve. That will work if they do it as a collection of countries. However, I still personally believe that if Dominica alone tries to fight Venezuela for ownership of Bird Island, Dominica would be fighting a losing battle simply because of the facts that are present.
It is a fact that the USA has established boundaries with Venezuela and their territory Puerto Rico, using Bird Island as Venezuela’s reference line. France did the same to establish boundaries with their territories of Guadeloupe and Martinique. However, neither France nor the USA used Bird Island as the reference line when establishing their boundary with Dominica and these territories!
It is also a fact that Venezuela has a known tangible claim from the Queen of Spain back when the decision was being made to the ownership of Bird Island. This proclamation was accepted worldwide at the time it was made by all and sundry. Although many presently query the validity of such an ownership but the facts of it are clear. In addition, the facts are clear that Dominica has never had any official paper or recognized claim to Bird Island. Dominica’s only point used to justify why Bird Island should belong to her is how close it is to the Dominican mainland as opposed to Venezuela’s. However, if the ownership of Bird Island has to be settled by how close it is to a country’s mainland, then as I stated before, Montserrat should have first options as it is the closest mainland to Bird Island! I also pointed out that if Dominica tries through the United Nations or any other world body to gain ownership of Bird Island it might be difficult. And as I pointed out earlier, I think it will be difficult for Dominica because both France and the USA (who already openly recognizes Venezuela’s reference line to be Bird Island) have veto rights at the UN and powerful voices at all world bodies. For them to back Dominica in such a fight they would have to renounce their boundaries previously established with Venezuela and explain why they think that Dominica should have ownership of Bird Island as opposed to their previous agreed assumption.
Full Disclosure, I am simply stating the facts as I see them and expressing my own opinion base on those facts. Further, in support of my country, Dominica, I suggested and I am in full agreement with the idea for Dominica and the rest of the Caribbean islands to bring up a case to the highest level showing that if Venezuela monopolize on their age old claim to Birds Island they could control the Caribbean Sea. They could formulate actual reasons why that would have a negative effect on many of the island nations and could even suggest that Bird Island should remains a no-man-land national reserve. That will work if they do it as a collection of countries. However, I still personally believe that if Dominica alone tries to fight Venezuela for ownership of Bird Island, Dominica would be fighting a losing battle simply because of the facts that are present.
# posted by : November 2, 2009 2:11 PM
: November 2, 2009 2:11 PM
For all concern:
Bird Island is 90 miles off Dominica's north west coast connected to Dominica under an underwater ridge.
Dominica is closest to Bird Island. Not Montserrat.
Check you facts, national geographic or google may be of help.
Just a thought.
Kibosh
Bird Island is 90 miles off Dominica's north west coast connected to Dominica under an underwater ridge.
Dominica is closest to Bird Island. Not Montserrat.
Check you facts, national geographic or google may be of help.
Just a thought.
Kibosh
# posted by : November 2, 2009 2:31 PM
: November 2, 2009 2:31 PM
Fromm BBC Caribbean
Bleak outlook for Caribbean except Dominica
The Economist Intelligence Unit, a respected think tank, says economic conditions in the Caribbean may deteriorate further before they improve.
It's outlined a bleak but not unfamiliar list of economic indicators in the region.
Tourism performance is weak, remittances are not picking up, consumers are borrowing and spending less, unemployment is rising and government budget deficits are widening.
Given these dynamics, the Economist Intelligence Unit (EIU) estimates recessions in 2009 in all countries in the English-speaking Caribbean with the exception of Dominica.
That's because Dominica has a relatively low reliance on tourism and is enjoying a construction boom thanks to fiscal stimulus measures funded mainly by donor aid.
In 2010, the EIU says growth will remain negative in some countries and even in those that begin to recover expansion will be very weak.
Skerro may be doing something right?
What do you think?
Bleak outlook for Caribbean except Dominica
The Economist Intelligence Unit, a respected think tank, says economic conditions in the Caribbean may deteriorate further before they improve.
It's outlined a bleak but not unfamiliar list of economic indicators in the region.
Tourism performance is weak, remittances are not picking up, consumers are borrowing and spending less, unemployment is rising and government budget deficits are widening.
Given these dynamics, the Economist Intelligence Unit (EIU) estimates recessions in 2009 in all countries in the English-speaking Caribbean with the exception of Dominica.
That's because Dominica has a relatively low reliance on tourism and is enjoying a construction boom thanks to fiscal stimulus measures funded mainly by donor aid.
In 2010, the EIU says growth will remain negative in some countries and even in those that begin to recover expansion will be very weak.
Skerro may be doing something right?
What do you think?
# posted by : November 2, 2009 3:47 PM
: November 2, 2009 3:47 PM
"That's because Dominica has a relatively low reliance on tourism and is enjoying a construction boom thanks to fiscal stimulus measures funded mainly by donor aid." Will your Skerro will be able to sustain it? if yes for how long? If no what then?
# posted by : November 2, 2009 4:04 PM
: November 2, 2009 4:04 PM
The largest from Venezuela to Dominica (to buy the Caribbean Sea by accepting construction on Bird Island to make habitable from humans)is funding this construction boom ...
At what PRICE?
Skerro selling Dominica's birth right to the Caribbean Sea!
But UWP would do the same. We need Mamo's Freedom to rise again!
At what PRICE?
Skerro selling Dominica's birth right to the Caribbean Sea!
But UWP would do the same. We need Mamo's Freedom to rise again!
# posted by : November 3, 2009 12:59 PM
: November 3, 2009 12:59 PM
Mamo's Freedom? Mano didn't know what real freedom was even if it slapped here in her face, just look at what she conspired with Ronald Reagan to do in Grenada for one hundred thousand dollars. Mamo's freedom my foot. Have you ever heard of the dead pysically rising, well except for that story in the bible? I think Skeritt got his judas menatlity from Mamo, he was part of the young freedom movement, just like all the other past young freedom movement members who are here egging Skeritt on. So Mamo was no better then UWP or the New Freedom party AKA- present labor party
# posted by : November 3, 2009 2:41 PM
: November 3, 2009 2:41 PM
So for you Anonymous : November 3, 2009 2:41 PM - No UWP, No Freedom and No present Labour Party.
Well, the Pappy Show Party will have to do then. B/c you could not be thinking about the Real Labour Party?
Well, the Pappy Show Party will have to do then. B/c you could not be thinking about the Real Labour Party?
# posted by : November 3, 2009 3:27 PM
: November 3, 2009 3:27 PM
I said the present labor party-- The one headed by Skeritt and the other - John Gottis and lucky Lucianos. Which real labor party are you talking about? I am just saying that they are six in one half a dozen in the other. Meim Bete, mem pluil. It is just a matter of the lesser of all the evils. For now UWP seems to be that one. I am not saying that they to, do not have their issues, labor (Mafia) party proved to be one hundred times more corrupt than them.
# posted by : November 3, 2009 3:44 PM
: November 3, 2009 3:44 PM
Meim Bete, mem pluil. You New York Dominicans always make be laugh. UWP is the lesser of the evils? I will take Para and his PDM ego before I take a second round of Edison's ego.
When you guys prove that Skerrit is like "John Gottis and lucky Lucianos" then I will have to start the revolution myself.
Recruiting the "lost generation," the 1979 youth revolutionaries ...
When you guys prove that Skerrit is like "John Gottis and lucky Lucianos" then I will have to start the revolution myself.
Recruiting the "lost generation," the 1979 youth revolutionaries ...
# posted by : November 3, 2009 5:19 PM
: November 3, 2009 5:19 PM
Bird island is also called Aves Island.
Do you know that there is also an Aves Island a few miles north of Venezuela?
Do you know that there is also an Aves Island a few miles north of Venezuela?
# posted by : November 4, 2009 7:05 PM
: November 4, 2009 7:05 PM
Meim Bete, mem pluil? Maybe NOT. Dominica Wins!
Lordship Justice Bannister of the BVI Commercial Court has delivered the judgment in the court matter involving the Government of Dominica and Shangri-La International Development Holding Limited and ruled that Government is “unconditionally entitled to 51% of the share equity in Shangri La”.
Attorney General (AG) of Dominica, Francine Baron Royer, told a press conference this afternoon that the judge accepted Prime Minister Roosevelt Skerrit as a witness of truth and accepted the evidence of the Prime Minister on the issue in dispute.
“This is a historic and important judgment for Dominica. After many years of controversy, the government of Dominica is now, for the first time, the majority owner and controller of the Layou River Hotel Project,” she said.
The AG added that the judgement also vindicated completely the willingness and courage of Prime Minister Skerrit who swore to an affidavit in support of the government and subjected himself willingly to two days of cross-examination by one of the leading commercial QC’s from London.
Where is the CORRUPTION?
You guys HAVE NOT proven that Skerrit is like "John Gottis and Lucky Lucianos" ... WHAT IS YOUR NEXT MOVE?
Lordship Justice Bannister of the BVI Commercial Court has delivered the judgment in the court matter involving the Government of Dominica and Shangri-La International Development Holding Limited and ruled that Government is “unconditionally entitled to 51% of the share equity in Shangri La”.
Attorney General (AG) of Dominica, Francine Baron Royer, told a press conference this afternoon that the judge accepted Prime Minister Roosevelt Skerrit as a witness of truth and accepted the evidence of the Prime Minister on the issue in dispute.
“This is a historic and important judgment for Dominica. After many years of controversy, the government of Dominica is now, for the first time, the majority owner and controller of the Layou River Hotel Project,” she said.
The AG added that the judgement also vindicated completely the willingness and courage of Prime Minister Skerrit who swore to an affidavit in support of the government and subjected himself willingly to two days of cross-examination by one of the leading commercial QC’s from London.
Where is the CORRUPTION?
You guys HAVE NOT proven that Skerrit is like "John Gottis and Lucky Lucianos" ... WHAT IS YOUR NEXT MOVE?
# posted by : November 12, 2009 12:38 PM
: November 12, 2009 12:38 PM
Look jokes. What UWP & their radio agents going to say now? Check out what the court say:
Justice Bannister presented favourable reviews of the witnesses for the claimants. He referred to Prime Minister Skerrit as a truthful witness and to Felix Chen of Sino Union as an impressive witness.
“I accept the Prime Minister’s clear evidence on this point… which is amply corroborated by the references in the contemporaneous documents… and I reject Mr. Pinard-Byrne’s evidence that sometime in February 2006 the Prime Minister accepted the conditions for which Rich Victory Contends…”
“In my judgment this case is a simple one. The unconditional nature of the transfer itself and its execution by both parties shows that the parties had agreed to ignore the first phase condition and instead had agreed… to make the transfer effective forthwith.
In terms of the defense witnesses, while he believes that David Hsiu “did his best to answer truthfully” when specific questions were posed to him, the BVI Commercial Court Judge was severely critical of Kieron Pinard-Byrne, the man who claimed he tried to save the government from accepting majority ownership of a “poisoned chalice”:
“I did not find him a satisfactory witness. I had to remind myself more than once that he was not, in fact, a party to the proceedings. His oral, like his written evidence was partisan and argumentative. He appeared, if I may so put it, to be promulgating a version of events rather than to assist by giving purely factual evidence. When faced with evidence which contradicted his thesis, he became agitated and emotional. He appeared immune to appeals to recognize plain and obvious fact when it appeared to him that it was against Rich Victory’s interest to do so. I have to treat his evidence with the greatest caution”.
The commercial court of the BVI today ordered a rectification of the share register of Shangri-La International Holdings Limited (a remnant of the failed Layou River economic citizenship program) to make the Government of Dominica the rightful owner of the majority shares.
Now you know them Linton, Ron, Matt and all those haters saying now?
Sherrit corrupt. Look at that house he build! Look JOKES.
Viva Dominica!
Justice Bannister presented favourable reviews of the witnesses for the claimants. He referred to Prime Minister Skerrit as a truthful witness and to Felix Chen of Sino Union as an impressive witness.
“I accept the Prime Minister’s clear evidence on this point… which is amply corroborated by the references in the contemporaneous documents… and I reject Mr. Pinard-Byrne’s evidence that sometime in February 2006 the Prime Minister accepted the conditions for which Rich Victory Contends…”
“In my judgment this case is a simple one. The unconditional nature of the transfer itself and its execution by both parties shows that the parties had agreed to ignore the first phase condition and instead had agreed… to make the transfer effective forthwith.
In terms of the defense witnesses, while he believes that David Hsiu “did his best to answer truthfully” when specific questions were posed to him, the BVI Commercial Court Judge was severely critical of Kieron Pinard-Byrne, the man who claimed he tried to save the government from accepting majority ownership of a “poisoned chalice”:
“I did not find him a satisfactory witness. I had to remind myself more than once that he was not, in fact, a party to the proceedings. His oral, like his written evidence was partisan and argumentative. He appeared, if I may so put it, to be promulgating a version of events rather than to assist by giving purely factual evidence. When faced with evidence which contradicted his thesis, he became agitated and emotional. He appeared immune to appeals to recognize plain and obvious fact when it appeared to him that it was against Rich Victory’s interest to do so. I have to treat his evidence with the greatest caution”.
The commercial court of the BVI today ordered a rectification of the share register of Shangri-La International Holdings Limited (a remnant of the failed Layou River economic citizenship program) to make the Government of Dominica the rightful owner of the majority shares.
Now you know them Linton, Ron, Matt and all those haters saying now?
Sherrit corrupt. Look at that house he build! Look JOKES.
Viva Dominica!
# posted by : November 12, 2009 3:06 PM
: November 12, 2009 3:06 PM
Do the analysis!!! What exactly Dominica gained by winning this case! How much money? How much property. what is the NET GAIN here? Yeah this maybe a moral boast for all you God Skeritt, but what does it mean for DOMINICA????? Please pray tell.. This is not over unless the 20 million dollar mystery question is solved.. Maybe the Chinese will have to break some knee caps for their money.. LOL .. Gangster style
Shirley Allan
Shirley Allan
# posted by : November 12, 2009 7:48 PM
: November 12, 2009 7:48 PM
Miss Allan,
Are you suggesting that it would have been best if Dominica had lost the case? Could you please tell me which verdict would have been the best for Dominica?
In my opinion, this case was about a mess that was created by the lack of foresight of the Economic Citizenship Program started by the Eugina Charles government and carried on by Edison James’s UWP, and two Labour Party PMs. Dominica presently needed to establish where things stand and hopefully set things on a potential right path. Does the current verdict give Dominica that chance to set things straight on a potential right path? Please explain your point of view (and let’s leave partisan politics out of it).
Are you suggesting that it would have been best if Dominica had lost the case? Could you please tell me which verdict would have been the best for Dominica?
In my opinion, this case was about a mess that was created by the lack of foresight of the Economic Citizenship Program started by the Eugina Charles government and carried on by Edison James’s UWP, and two Labour Party PMs. Dominica presently needed to establish where things stand and hopefully set things on a potential right path. Does the current verdict give Dominica that chance to set things straight on a potential right path? Please explain your point of view (and let’s leave partisan politics out of it).
# posted by : November 14, 2009 11:11 AM
: November 14, 2009 11:11 AM
Thank you very much for your question. I appreciate both the tone and subsatnce of it... Let me begin by saying that I risked my life in demonstrations aganist the citienship program started by Eugenia. I fell out with UWP for continuing it after they had used me aganist Freedom party. I thought it was disingenuous to continue something they thought was in the first place and I became even more angry in the way the labor party abused and misused this program, this issue is a by product of the program..
My question is not whether Dominica wins the case in the BVI or not, my concern is what is the net game for DOMINICA.. This is all I care about, I reallt don;t give a damn about Skeritt, Ron, or Judith.
Let's see what it will be... What do you think 51% of nothing is? isn't it a fact that the initial value of the property is question has decreased to what now? What's the value of the property now.. Is this a political question? I think not.
My question is not whether Dominica wins the case in the BVI or not, my concern is what is the net game for DOMINICA.. This is all I care about, I reallt don;t give a damn about Skeritt, Ron, or Judith.
Let's see what it will be... What do you think 51% of nothing is? isn't it a fact that the initial value of the property is question has decreased to what now? What's the value of the property now.. Is this a political question? I think not.
# posted by : November 14, 2009 4:59 PM
: November 14, 2009 4:59 PM
There is no truth in whatever this man is saying the fact is that his Devil power is working, he is no angel
Thank you
Thank you
# posted by : November 14, 2009 7:50 PM
: November 14, 2009 7:50 PM
Shangri-La International Holdings Limited ie: Layou River Project is the owner of the LAND and STRUCTURES etc - is that not so?
Do the LAND and STRUCTURES not worth something? Or is it "51% of nothing?" - thus the LAND and STRUCTURES are not owned by Shangri-La International Holdings Limited?
I don't get the negative point being made about winning the case.
Do the LAND and STRUCTURES not worth something? Or is it "51% of nothing?" - thus the LAND and STRUCTURES are not owned by Shangri-La International Holdings Limited?
I don't get the negative point being made about winning the case.
# posted by : November 16, 2009 1:55 PM
: November 16, 2009 1:55 PM
From: http://www.bbc.co.uk/caribbean/news/story/2009/11/091117_briefingup.shtml
11/17/2009
Bird Island back on the agenda
The controversial Bird Island matter has surfaced as a political issue in Dominica's unofficial election campaign.
President Hugo Chavez Venezuela has claimed Bird Island
Described as nothing more than a rock by the UN Law of the Sea Convention, Bird Island or Isla de Aves, as the Venezuelans call it, is located some 70 miles west of Dominica and 340 miles north of Venezuela.
Venezuela has already established a naval base there, claiming Bird island as its own.
Two of Dominica's opposition parties, the United Workers Party and the Dominica Freedom Party have accused the Roosevelt Skerrit administration of not pursuing Roseau's claim to Bird island, because of the government's close links with Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez and Dominica's dependence on Venezuelan oil under the Petro Caribe agreement.
11/17/2009
Bird Island back on the agenda
The controversial Bird Island matter has surfaced as a political issue in Dominica's unofficial election campaign.
President Hugo Chavez Venezuela has claimed Bird Island
Described as nothing more than a rock by the UN Law of the Sea Convention, Bird Island or Isla de Aves, as the Venezuelans call it, is located some 70 miles west of Dominica and 340 miles north of Venezuela.
Venezuela has already established a naval base there, claiming Bird island as its own.
Two of Dominica's opposition parties, the United Workers Party and the Dominica Freedom Party have accused the Roosevelt Skerrit administration of not pursuing Roseau's claim to Bird island, because of the government's close links with Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez and Dominica's dependence on Venezuelan oil under the Petro Caribe agreement.
# posted by : November 17, 2009 6:52 PM
: November 17, 2009 6:52 PM Links to this post:
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